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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2008, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Ronin-Talgar View Post
I like your view of the world Raharu, makes me want to buy a shotgun and barrcicade the doors.
You live in Australia. You can't buy a shotgun.

Of course, I'm not a (*)(*)(*)(*)(*). I don't fear people for no reason.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2008, 01:32 AM
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Oh but the underworld never gives up their guns remember? Thats the argument that keeps giving american schoolchildren a well rounded education in the criminal justice system, one way or another. Maybe I'll just make friends with some seedy underbelly types L.O.L.

No, you've got your reasons I'm sure.
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Old 08-03-2008, 03:10 AM
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if our government cared for the health of the country they would try and reform inmates, as to eliminate crime.
my pa has been to prison.

some inmates were scheming on how they were going to get back INTO prison, it beets starving in the gheto.
some were devising methods to not get caught next time.

if the government didnt make life so hard for lower class folks, there would be alot less crime.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2008, 03:11 AM
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Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
I don't think that prisons do well in reforming anyone. In many ways i think they do more harm. I think the prison system is in need of repair.
The prisons are not interested in reforming anyone, that is the biggest problem.
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Old 08-03-2008, 03:15 AM
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Originally Posted by withoutjudgement View Post
some inmates were scheming on how they were going to get back INTO prison, it beets starving in the gheto.
some were devising methods to not get caught next time.
I have heard that some long term prisoners commit crime upon release so they can go back to prison. They have been there so long they don't know anything else, and they have not been reintroduced to the world, so when they get out, everything is totally new to them. They have no idea about the prices of anything, they feel frightened and awkward in a world they no longer know, so they commit crime to go back because they feel safe.

Prison needs to reintroduce prisoners to the outside world when they are going to be released. A few day trips outside isn't going to help, they need to be shown how to pay their bills, how to work new technology, how to go shopping etc. They can't make it on their own.
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Old 08-03-2008, 03:33 AM
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Originally Posted by heikstheo View Post
Oh, great! Why should we waste taxpayer money having a shrink bring out the inner child in all these animals?
Too late, California prisons are full of $200,000 plus shrinks taking care of the small minded criminals. In 5 years Cal went from 40 people making over $200K to 1000 people making more than $200K. Prisons have a large portion of that 1000.

To the OP, there are some types of criminals that are not reformable.
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Old 08-03-2008, 04:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Alec O. View Post
I personally believe that in prison, instead of just having the inmates lay around watching cable TV and eating bad food, a serious attempt should be made to reform each and every one of the inmates. If one truly shows that they have reformed, they should be released back into society. I don't believe that people regardless of what they've done should just be locked up and forgotten. Everyone deserves a chance to make things right, and I personally believe that the average person is prejudiced against people who've committed crimes. The crimes may be wrong, and it isn't prejudiced just to think that they are, but people start to look upon the criminals as though what they've done makes them subhuman and that they don't deserve the same rights as other people do. Everyone is a person regardless of what they've done and everyone can reform if they truly want to.
You need to research more on this subject , for one thing few prisons have cable TV and in none do they just sit around watching TV and eating. This is in fact an old subject with an entire academic field devoted to studying it.

One fact is this you CANNOT reform a person that is an absolute. A person can only reform himself , he has to want to reform . This is similar to what NA and AA groups teach in that an addict can only recover if they want to do so no one can do it for them or make them.

Many different types of reform and rehabilitation have been tried now for decades the medical model the psychological model the therapeutic model all have been scrapped for one simple reason. None of them worked. Their failure is based on recidivism rates as opposed to any individual example of success.
No matter which model or effort was implemented recidivism rates stayed very high or even increased. The latest model being applied by most institutions is the balanced model which includes a little of everything often referred to in the system as reentry. They are still waiting to judge it's effectiveness but so far it is not promising.

All these programs forget one crucial factor which should never have been forgotten or ignored and that is the victim. Some leading prisons are addressing this with victim support programs which include many efforts such as victim input for parole hearings and security classifications. ( which means whether an offender is in a minimum, medium , close or maximum security institution ) This is often the one thing forgotten by most reformists that is the criminals have harmed someone often in a horrifying way and the victim deserves justice.

Violent criminals and even many non violent ones deserve to lose their freedom for a long time and yet this is punishment or even revenge and it is necessary and important for government to do this. If government did not step in and punish them individuals will seek revenge and we would have anarchy. Most criminals actually tend to continue being criminals even after incarcerated which is likely the main reason why reform does not work most of them do not wish to change. Sexual predators still try to seek prey in prison murderers will often try to murder other inmates ,thieves continue to steal.
Probably some of the best experts on this subject are the ones most often ignored by corrections academia and they are the corrections officers or COs.

These men and women risk their lives every day trying to enforce the law in prison and maintain security and control of prisons. They work directly with the criminals for their entire careers and do so while vastly outnumbered and essentially unarmed. Imagine a cop trying to work a beat where all the people in his beat are rapists murderers thieves and gangsters , and he has no gun.Long gone are the days when these professionals could beat inmates at the drop of a hat or throw them in a hole for weeks . Today prisons are far more humane and COs will lose their jobs instantly maybe even be incarcerated themselves if they allow abuse of inmates to occur. Which disputes what many claim which is that prisons make these offenders into criminals.

The only reform program to have shown any real success is simply education , give an inmate a chance to go to school if they wish , and they stand a better chance of staying out. But again the decision and choice is the inmates to make no one can make him go to school or even want to go.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2008, 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Makedde View Post
The prisons are not interested in reforming anyone, that is the biggest problem.
That is because a prison CANNOT reform anyone it is impossible. No one can reform someone else just as no one can make an addict stop using or seek treatment they have to wish to do so . And in fact you are wrong most reform programs have been imposed on the prison system they simply did not work.
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Old 08-03-2008, 04:09 AM
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Originally Posted by withoutjudgement View Post
if our government cared for the health of the country they would try and reform inmates, as to eliminate crime.
my pa has been to prison.

some inmates were scheming on how they were going to get back INTO prison, it beets starving in the gheto.
some were devising methods to not get caught next time.

if the government didnt make life so hard for lower class folks, there would be alot less crime.
Crime cannot be eliminated and it is not a health problem. Exactly how does the government make life so hard for lower class folks as opposed to anyone else?
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Old 08-03-2008, 04:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Soupnazi View Post
That is because a prison CANNOT reform anyone it is impossible. No one can reform someone else just as no one can make an addict stop using or seek treatment they have to wish to do so . And in fact you are wrong most reform programs have been imposed on the prison system they simply did not work.
This was what I meant. If the prisoner is interested in reforming, every effect should be made to help them in that.

Many reform systems are imposed on the prison system, and some do not work, but others fail because the prisoners themselves decline to take part.

Sex offenders for instance, have the chance to attend a series of meetings within the prison to help them with their urges. Prisoners are under no legal obligation to attend. This is why such programs fail, they are not enforced.
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