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  #351 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2008, 01:19 AM
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Originally Posted by heikstheo View Post
Could you re-educate me on what null hypotheses and alternative hypotheses are and how they work?
null hypothesis is the standard situation you want to test. To prove that that hypothesis doesn't hold true you need to prove that a alternative hypothesis does hold true. If that isn't proven that the alternative hypothesis holds true then the null hypothesis is automaticly taken.
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  #352 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2008, 01:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Justice Strike View Post
Actually, in the scientific community, it is the null hypothesis that is seen as true unless the alternative hypothesis is proven right.
*looks around*

This isnt the scientific community though
It's a debate forum..
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  #353 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2008, 01:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Leesha View Post
*looks around*

This isnt the scientific community though
It's a debate forum..
well by all means disregard any science. That includes social sciences, economic sciences, techonological sciences, political science etc... There would be pretty (*)(*)(*)(*) little to debate about.
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Old 08-06-2008, 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Justice Strike View Post
well by all means disregard any science. That includes social sciences, economic sciences, techonological sciences, political science etc... There would be pretty (*)(*)(*)(*) little to debate about.
And just who is this forums recognized scientific expert?
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Old 08-06-2008, 01:52 AM
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well by all means disregard any science. That includes social sciences, economic sciences, techonological sciences, political science etc... There would be pretty (*)(*)(*)(*) little to debate about.
In the debate world you need to back up your claims
your claim your burden
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  #356 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2008, 01:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Leesha View Post
In the debate world you need to back up your claims
your claim your burden
i did back it up. I said that, until it is proven that something else is true, this is true! BTW debates are about soundbites and not the facts, so i hardly think this is true. Ever seen obama or mccain debate and while quoting facts saying from wich source and page it's from? never seen that.

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Old 08-06-2008, 01:58 AM
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i did back it up. I said that, until it is proven that something else is true, this is true! BTW debates are about soundbites and not the facts, so i hardly think this is true. Ever seen obama or mccain debate and while quoting facts saying from wich source and page it's from? never seen that.
I never watch presidential debates.

Every time I went up for a debate I have had to make sure I found facts that would back up my claims before I could make claims
May it have been a debate site or back when I was on my debate team in High School.
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  #358 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2008, 02:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Leesha View Post
I never watch presidential debates.

Every time I went up for a debate I have had to make sure I found facts that would back up my claims before I could make claims
May it have been a debate site or back when I was on my debate team in High School.
Let's just let it rest, this was all about a funny remark i made. I just don't have much time to look up the sources. Most things are solved by logic anyway. Quoting someone else is a cheap way of getting the point across.

Last edited by Justice Strike; 08-06-2008 at 02:05 AM.
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Old 08-06-2008, 05:26 AM
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null hypothesis is the standard situation you want to test. To prove that that hypothesis doesn't hold true you need to prove that a alternative hypothesis does hold true. If that isn't proven that the alternative hypothesis holds true then the null hypothesis is automaticly taken.
Can you show a specific example of how null hypothesis and alternative hypothesis work? Pretend, for example, that you're submitting a proposal for a master's thesis or doctoral dissertation in psychology. Perhaps the example might have something to do with the psychology of rehabilitation and punishment. Note: Assume that you're trying to explain your thesis/dissertation to somebody reasonably intelligent who doesn't have much psychology background beyond a required freshman course.
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Old 08-06-2008, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by heikstheo View Post
Can you show a specific example of how null hypothesis and alternative hypothesis work? Pretend, for example, that you're submitting a proposal for a master's thesis or doctoral dissertation in psychology. Perhaps the example might have something to do with the psychology of rehabilitation and punishment. Note: Assume that you're trying to explain your thesis/dissertation to somebody reasonably intelligent who doesn't have much psychology background beyond a required freshman course.
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For example, one may want to compare the test scores of two random samples of men and women, and ask whether or not one group (population) has a mean score (which really is) different from the other. A null hypothesis would be that the mean score of the male population was the same as the mean score of the female population:

H0 : μ1 = μ2

where:

H0 = the null hypothesis
μ1 = the mean of population 1, and
μ2 = the mean of population 2.

Alternatively, the null hypothesis can postulate (suggest) that the two samples are drawn from the same population, so that the variance and shape of the distributions are equal, as well as the means.

Formulation of the null hypothesis is a vital step in testing statistical significance. One can then establish the probability of observing the obtained data (or data more different from the prediction of the null hypothesis) if the null hypothesis is true. That probability is what is commonly called the "significance level" of the results.

That is, in scientific experimental design, we may predict that a particular factor will produce an effect on our dependent variable — this is our alternative hypothesis. We then consider how often we would expect to observe our experimental results, or results even more extreme, if we were to take many samples from a population where there was no effect (i.e. we test against our null hypothesis). If we find that this happens rarely (up to, say, 5% of the time), we can conclude that our results support our experimental prediction — we reject our null hypothesis.
if you don't know what a null hypothesis is, then i cannot explain it in a few posts. i already outlined the basics of it.

btw, null hypothesis is a statistical term. There are other terms in logic, but logical terminology and thinking ways are really hard to explain if you don't know the script. you will get things like this:

and

Logic might be more appropriate then statistics, but understandable, they are not.

Last edited by Justice Strike; 08-06-2008 at 05:44 AM.
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