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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 09-18-2004, 10:51 AM
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It's nice to hear about a young person being interested in politics. So many adults are losing interest, i had lost hope for the new generation.
Learning the parties main platforms is a good place to start (don't forget there are more parties than just dems and reps!).
Another good idea....since this is american politics we are discussing here...study the constitution and the declaration of independence. It may seem boring at first, but put it in light of the times it was written in and remember how long it has held up.The constitution is the bedrock and there is a lot to learn from it, and it's good to learn this for yourself without too much interpretation of others.
THe quiz at political compass is fun. Once you do it for yourself, what your honest answers are, do it with answers that would be opposite of yours, to see where those people stand.
In politics, as in all aspects of life...avoid stereotypes.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 09-18-2004, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade-of-Funk";p=&quot View Post
Your post was pretty funny and actually not as bad as PJ's. PJ's pretended to be objective when it clearly wasn't.
If you believe that my post was less objective than Ron's than it is you who are not objective. Give me a few examples of non-objective statements from my post.
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Old 09-18-2004, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by ron5006";p=&quot View Post
You think I am not being honest about the liberal-movement? Just look at moveon.org's book entitled "50 Ways To Love Your Country." Hmm. I wonder if protesting is in the Top Ten??

Ron
Moveon.org is far left and generally crazy. If you believe that they represent the views of average liberals, then you are as crazy as they are.
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Old 09-18-2004, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PJO34";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade-of-Funk";p=&quot View Post
Your post was pretty funny and actually not as bad as PJ's. PJ's pretended to be objective when it clearly wasn't.
If you believe that my post was less objective than Ron's than it is you who are not objective. Give me a few examples of non-objective statements from my post.
You must be kidding. Ron's post did not pretend to be objective. The first seven Republican beliefs you posted are pretty close to objectivity. You would have to be stupid to truly think the rest are objective statements.
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Old 09-18-2004, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The12thMan";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PJO34";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade-of-Funk";p=&quot View Post
Your post was pretty funny and actually not as bad as PJ's. PJ's pretended to be objective when it clearly wasn't.
If you believe that my post was less objective than Ron's than it is you who are not objective. Give me a few examples of non-objective statements from my post.
You must be kidding. Ron's post did not pretend to be objective. The first seven Republican beliefs you posted are pretty close to objectivity. You would have to be stupid to truly think the rest are objective statements.
Then let's talk about 8, 9, and 10.

Business regulation: do not favor the strict enforcement of regulatory schemes set by congress because complying with regulations costs businesses money (i.e. Bush killed ergonomics regulations because he thought that enforcement would cost too much money)
Conservatives don't generally support loose regulations because to enforce them would cost too much?

Guns: the more guns the better
Conservatives aren't gun crazy? Since when?

Lawyers: generally consider lawyers to be a hindrance on business and favor tort reform in all areas
Seriously, how can you disagree with this?

If you are going to posit that I was not fair, then pick something unfair and explain it to me. Maybe I will agree.
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Old 09-18-2004, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by PJO34";p=&quot View Post
Business regulation: do not favor the strict enforcement of regulatory schemes set by congress because complying with regulations costs businesses money (i.e. Bush killed ergonomics regulations because he thought that enforcement would cost too much money)
Conservatives don't generally support loose regulations because to enforce them would cost too much?
I will answer this with a personal story. I am thisclose to to having to layoff one of my employees due to the fact that required (by the state) sample costs for my company have increased by 400% in the past year. I can hardly provide for my customers with less employees, so if I do not get an increase in the rates I charge (they are regulated by the state), my company will be in serious trouble. In a nutshell, while the quality of service has not improved in any way, people are going to have to pay more. My customers will blame me. Who do you think I will blame?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PJO34";p=&quot View Post
Guns: the more guns the better
Conservatives aren't gun crazy? Since when?
You should have said, "the more guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens who want them, the better." As I've said before, a gun in my hands hurts no one. A gun taken out of my hands helps no one.

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Originally Posted by PJO34";p=&quot View Post
Lawyers: generally consider lawyers to be a hindrance on business and favor tort reform in all areas
Seriously, how can you disagree with this?
This was actually, "most hated group". Do you seriously think that conservatives hate lawyers more than any other group? Really?
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Old 09-18-2004, 12:31 PM
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If you are going to posit that I was not fair, then pick something unfair and explain it to me. Maybe I will agree.
I didn't say you were unfair. I said you were not objective. It's unfair to pretend to be objective when you are not. Say anything you want, just don't profess to be presenting facts when you are presenting opinion.
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Old 09-18-2004, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by The12thMan";p=&quot View Post
I will answer this with a personal story. I am thisclose to to having to layoff one of my employees due to the fact that required (by the state) sample costs for my company have increased by 400% in the past year. I can hardly provide for my customers with less employees, so if I do not get an increase in the rates I charge (they are regulated by the state), my company will be in serious trouble. In a nutshell, while the quality of service has not improved in any way, people are going to have to pay more. My customers will blame me. Who do you think I will blame?
So you are a conservative who would prefer looser regulations on your business? Well, isn't that what I said? In my little outline, I didn't write that heavy or loose regulations are good or bad, I just wrote that conservatives want looser regulations and liberals want stricter ones. An example that shows the truth of this position is the ergonomic regulations that Clinton approved and Bush squashed when he came into office. Liberals believed that the regulations were necessary because workers were getting injured and in some cases maimed by repetitive actions at work and conservatives thought that the regulations would be too expensive for business. As it turns out, both sides were right, but that is my conclusion and I did not interject my conclusion in the outline I presented.

Quote:
You should have said, "the more guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens who want them, the better." As I've said before, a gun in my hands hurts no one. A gun taken out of my hands helps no one.
Of course no one wants criminals to have guns and I never wrote nor implied otherwise. The fact remains that, on average, conservatives are FAR more enamored by guns than liberals. How is that not a fair statement?

Quote:
This was actually, "most hated group". Do you seriously think that conservatives hate lawyers more than any other group? Really?
Hate was probably the wrong word. I doubt conservatives "hate" lawyers and I doubt liberals "hate" CEOs. I believe that conservatives do see lawyers as a hindrence to business and because of that they are often seen, by the conservative, as a societal obstacle.

What else did you have a problem with?
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Old 09-18-2004, 01:47 PM
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I didn't say you were unfair. I said you were not objective. It's unfair to pretend to be objective when you are not. Say anything you want, just don't profess to be presenting facts when you are presenting opinion.
I was absolutely objective and you previous posts didn't show otherwise.

With regard to the outline topic on regulations, your example reinforced what I wrote.

With regard to guns, your fleshing out didn't contradict what I wrote, it only added a provision that I assumed (that conservatives like guns, but not in the hands of criminals). Did you really believe that I think conservative want criminals to have guns?

With regard to most hated group, the word "hate" might have been a bad choice, but whatever word is appropriate, it seems clear to me that conservatives feel the same way toward lawyers as liberals feel about CEOs. Not hate, maybe, but there is a general disrespect.
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Old 09-18-2004, 02:09 PM
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Well PJ,

I guess by your definition of objectivity, your post was objective. So was ron 5006's. I guess I just didn't realize I'm gun crazy since I don't own one. And, I guess I only thought I was for common sense in business regulations, because liberals are so rabidly anti-business. It's all so clear to me, now.
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