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Old 08-21-2008, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Crowtche View Post
I completely agree that there should not exist an essentially binary political system. It simply does not encompass the wide range of political platforms and ideas. And then people complain that elections are about voting for the lesser of two evils...
Tone down the rhetoric. Us less intelligent people can't keep up with the sophistry you all are propagating.
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Old 08-21-2008, 07:10 AM
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Tone down the rhetoric. Us less intelligent people can't keep up with the sophistry you all are propagating.
People should recognize more than two sides.
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Old 08-21-2008, 08:22 AM
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I agree with what you are saying. Which is why I consider myself a Libertarian, but I really am just fiscal responsible and socially moderate, leaning liberal.

I agree with gay marriage, but also agree with Prayer in schools. It’s when you can’t do a thing; I have a problem, unless that thing physically hurts another human.

I think we should be drilling for oil, but very carefully, while looking for alternate fuel methods.

We should always help to protect the environment. But not at the expense of human liberty.

So I can go on and one about issues. But I can compromise and that is what is missing. It is either all or nothing now.
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Old 08-21-2008, 09:03 AM
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I’m very tired of the misleading simplification, whereby political orientation is classified on a mono dimensional scale between the left and the right. All debate is then falsely interpreted as being part of a tug-of-war between these polarised “extremes”. When in reality, political ideology is multidimensional.

Too often political showdowns are like wrestling matches. Each party focusing on their champion, and ignoring everything outside the ring. It’s time we got to vote electronically on individual issues instead of being made to select the lesser monster on the ballot paper, and then helplessly watch him Welch on his promises for his entire term of office.
I noticed that on your free trade thread, your criticism of free trade led other posters to leap to the conclusion that you are a "socialist". If your not 100% in favor of the latest received wisdom than you MUST be anti-capitalist!

I think the black and white mentality has been pushed to an extreme in the past 20 years. Part of it has to do with redistricting. Many districts have been carved out to be "safe" for one party or the other. That means that the biggest hurdle can be the primary. "Safe" republican districts will tend to go with the extreme candidates not the ones who appear to be compromising or nuanced- the same thing can be the case with Dems. The rhetoric of polarization works its way into the media and then it becomes the norm.
Talk radio hosts have been major contributors to the decline of discourse.
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Old 08-21-2008, 09:30 AM
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I noticed that on your free trade thread, your criticism of free trade led other posters to leap to the conclusion that you are a "socialist". If your not 100% in favor of the latest received wisdom than you MUST be anti-capitalist!

I think the black and white mentality has been pushed to an extreme in the past 20 years. Part of it has to do with redistricting. Many districts have been carved out to be "safe" for one party or the other. That means that the biggest hurdle can be the primary. "Safe" republican districts will tend to go with the extreme candidates not the ones who appear to be compromising or nuanced- the same thing can be the case with Dems. The rhetoric of polarization works its way into the media and then it becomes the norm.
Talk radio hosts have been major contributors to the decline of discourse.
Those are only the superficial elements.
Redistricting is a problem... but another part is that people are really very much moving to live amongst people "more like them", exacerbating political similarity and polarization.

The real underlying problem is that government is no longer the most powerful institution.
Look at just how the parties will move and you'll find some basic assumptions they both share...
One is that MNCs are more powerful than the government and can do whatever they want. You can't restrict them in any way or they'll get up and leave- without regard of what happens to anyone. This is accepted and thereby encouraged by both parties.

Another is that consumerism is something to be embraced. After all, it runs the economic growth engine... even if it does effectively cause money to "trickle up" at an accelerated rate. Half the time, even the Democrats aren't talking about dealing with the concentration of power... They more often cite increasing the spending of the poor to keep the growth engine going. So the money goes down... then it just pops right back up to the top again.
The only major difference is that the Republicans would just throw out the gears in the engine when they don't work anymore. The Democrats offer safety nets, but this is mostly to keep the morale up and the machine running smoothly (This is after all why Karl Marx was FOR unrestricted "free trade"... It would lead to revolution).

And is this all just ideology? I wish it was.
It bothers me that in the modern day, except amongst the clueless "social issue" folks, economics always comes before ethics in all but superficial commentary.
Why?
Because the economic interests have more power than the governments!
We're moving quickly from a reign of nation-states to a reign of corporations.
Some people see this as a new freedom. Others see it as a new slavery. And I guess it all depends on who you are!
It's not globalization that's the problem... It's who runs it and what their ONLY motivation is.
Governments, for their part, have taken their role now to be whatever it takes to help their corporations gain dominance. All else is pretty much superficial.

But do note that more and more, the power of the vote will become meaningless. The power of the dollar will gain significance. There will be nothing even resembling equality under law or equal opportunity if this goes on.
Also science will become secondary to economics more and more. People see that "problem" of us having to import engineers and doctors as a problem with our schools. Ha! Give it ten years and some Chinese officials are expecting to see the same thing in China. Business is more profitable than science and not as hard to grasp. That's why national born Americans are more likely to travel that route than go for science.
And science itself is divided in what is profitable... not coincidentally by what is profitable to business. And of course with the least risk. So, yes, America will produce a lot of great new cellphone innovations before we get around to alternative energy.

That's just reality. If you have ethics... you really just need to take your guess as to who will profit most from values similar to yours. As for preventing democracy's slide into stockacracy... we can try, maybe we'll succeed... But I'm not very optimistic.
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