Rather than quote Georg Orwell, how about an original thought on your part?

Yes - you breached the Geneva Conventions and tortured prisoners.
You forgot to mention that you also carried out an illegal invasion of another country that lead to hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths.

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Have you ever stood toe to toe with someone that was intent on kicking your arse? C-D-P

Your right, stop quoting smart people, who have smart thoughts, and have some original dumb ones!!!

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R.I.P. Molly, I miss you every day!!

Im a Tarte, what! you want some of this?


And what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. Thomas Jefferson

Original thoughts can be understood only in virtue of the unoriginal elements which they contain.
Vittorio Alfieri Don Garzia (Act III, Scene 1)

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Have you ever stood toe to toe with someone that was intent on kicking your arse? C-D-P

Blah, blah, blah.

Every nation tortures, always have, always will.

It is a psychological warfare tactic. Is it right? No. But it does work for psychological purposes.

Geneva Conventions? Would you mind telling me which country here on this planet, has ever actually followed them? Last I checked our enemies were using civilians as shields and shooting at soldiers from Mosques, which I do believe go against Geneva Conventions. BUt we will allow that b/c we caused them to be there right?

War is war. The side that fights fair, will eventually lose.

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If I had the option of voting 2000 and 2004 over again, I would still vote Bush.

You don't think peoples minds can be changed? What on earth is that based on? After 9/11- directly after 9/11- we (*)(*)(*)(*)ing loved you guys. Like, almost all the world- for this example notably France? Guess what, things changed, simply because of the policy of you're government. Things can change for the worse, and they can for the better- short term and long term. You're a fool if you can't see the benefit of being respected and liked by the world, throug leading by example.

Wow. And you'll actually go on to call others Unamerican. Do you have a moral compass, or did you pawn that off? Morals aside- you were supposed to follow the geneva convention as its an agreed upon treaty- if you follow your constitution you're supposed to ten follow that aswell. What do you even stand for now?

Edit: Oh and cheers Metrophobe on some nice punnery.

[quote=Ronin-Talgar;712111]You don't think peoples minds can be changed? What on earth is that based on? After 9/11- directly after 9/11- we (*)(*)(*)(*)ing loved you guys. Like, almost all the world- for this example notably France? Guess what, things changed, simply because of the policy of you're government. Things can change for the worse, and they can for the better- short term and long term. You're a fool if you can't see the benefit of being respected and liked by the world, throug leading by example.

I was speaking in generalities about people changing their minds. Yes, most people are capable of changing their mind. I plead guilty that I have changed my mind on many issues over the years, but I would like to believe that it was for the better as I gained knowledge, experience and insight. My point was that we don't need to cowtow to others for the sake of political correctness. I'm may be a fool in the eyes of others, but I'm not foolishly allowing others to lead me by the hand in the hopes that they might like me. Do you actually like what other countries are doing in regard to the many issues of the world? We're not in the business of impressing others, but like you say we should set an example but we're not perfect, never have been, never will be. Well, at least not until Jesus returns.

Nonsense. What has the U.S. gained by torturing people?

Recently, World War 2 interrogators were recognized for their contributions. Until recently their work had been classified. They made a point of discussing their technique of dealing with the captive Germans. They gained a great deal of useful intelligence by simply befriending their prisoners. Did the side who fought "fair" lose the war?

These are not my views. These are just facts...lol. Nations torture. Some to a certain degree more then others. If they didnt, we wouldnt be discussing it here in 2008, instead of it being eliminated back in 1292. It is a part of war. I dont agree with it, but I do understand its use. Information is the key to success, in anything. You dont think nations kill for information you better think again.

The world of peace and civility is just the other side of the coin of war. we the civilians live in a world, given to us by the world we dont want to admit exists and that is the world where brutality reigns. Sorry, but that is just the facts. If it wasnt, then nations wouldnt be out there with spies, willing to risk their lives to get information and to keep that information seure at all costs. Nations torture and they do it to extract information. It does work, otherwise man would not still use it and they wouldnt have been using it since war began. Just the simple mention of it, creates fear in men and that is used as a psychological tool for either side of a conflict. Dont believe the horsecrap psychologists throw out there that it doesnt work. Just b/c it doesnt work on some, doesnt mean it wont work on others. Eventually everyone cracks.

Again, I dont condone it, I just realize that it is a fact of war that it is used to 1 extent or another. And if people really believe that any government official from any nation is going to admit in public that they torture, you are going to die before that happens.

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If I had the option of voting 2000 and 2004 over again, I would still vote Bush.

Few points about torture to gain information:

1. If the subject has the information he will tell it.
2. If he doesnt have the information he will make it up, but it must be rememberd that the Interrogators would use multiple sources to validate this info.

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"True Freedom is the Freedom to oppress others"

Ideology: Self Preservation.