Originally Posted by Solon

Workers who are identified as the “near poor” earn $20,000 to $40,000 per year. There are 50 Million of them. They are the janitors, nursing home aides, waiters, home-health aides, retail sales workers including cashiers, and food-prep and fast food workers. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics this group works in 6 of the top 10 job growth categories so there will be an increasing number of workers in this group over the next decade or so. These workers live on the edge of economic disaster and have great difficulty in making ends meet. As you might expect there is a significant number of people in this group locally. They are the ones for whom the S-CHIP (State Children’s Health Insurance Program) was created because they generally do not receive health insurance at work, nor can many afford it for themselves. The government has attempted to subsidize insurance for their children. Unfortunately, President Bush vetoed a bipartisan bill to provide an expansion of the program to accommodate the growing need. A minority of Republicans prevented an override of the Presidential veto. If workers were paid a living wage this kind of assistance would not be an issue. The failure to approve an increase in the program is to be expected from a party that has done nothing to enforce the labor laws or attempt to insure that workers get fair treatment when corporate profits soar.

Originally Posted by Raharu Haruha

There's no reason some shouldn't be able to make 40k.

Let's do some budgeting.

If we factor that taxes, insurance, interest and the price of a home is 30% of their income, then they could get a 150k home in 30 years, and they would have money left over. This is just a guess, but 12k x 30 years = 360k, so a 150k home is not out of the question.

Then we'll buy a car, a 17k car, over a five year loan = 5.4k, but we'll say it's 6k.

Then we'll take into consideration food. Let's say that he spends $5 a day on food. All in all, it's about 6k.

We'll throw in an extra 5k for extra expenses like cable and what not.

12K + 6K + 6k + 5k = 29k

Oh wow, he's got 11k to invest and save for retirement.

Originally Posted by BFOJ

1) if you can't afford it, you shouldn't plan on getting a home that requires 30% of your income.

2) Ditto for a vehicle for $17K, I've never paid that much for a car in my life, not even close. A 5 year loan is a bad deal except for the finance company. Who wants to keep paying on a car after the newness wears off. That car is no longer an eye-popper (now it's an eye-pooper), it no longer turns the heads of others, it's dirty, it's full on dings, smells like it's been an oven for every food known to man (or woman). It's in the shop every other week or so.

3) Cable, what's that? I know, I know, after February 2009 we'll have no more over-the-air broadcasts, then I might have to break down and get it. Or I could go without TV, perhaps the Internet. You say NO, I can't live without that. I've heard stories from my elders about how they didn't have such things and I'm thinking, my God I just couldn't live like that, I'd be bored out of my skull having to do free stuff, like a walk in the woods, going to a library, playing sandlot sports, spending time with my family, writing a letter (of course I wouldn't be able to afford a stamp), etc. I'd miss all the wonderful, good news and programming on TV. Heaven forbid.

4) $11K for investment and savings on a $40K income. Sign me up.

Originally Posted by Raharu Haruha

Lol so are you agreeing with me or disagreeing with me?

Originally Posted by BFOJ

What's to agree with? It's not realistic to believe everyone should make $40K, after all we are not in a socialist country where believe me very few would make that kind of money, nor are we so rich that we can afford the highest inflation this world has even known if we paid a minimum wage of $40K/year, that's about $20/hour if I figured it right. Besides not everyone contributes to the economy in an equal amount, nor do all people work the same in regards to their efforts and the money they make for the employer. This is a market-driven economy. Fair wages for fair work. No work, no benefits with few exceptions. If you can work, you should work. If you can't work, then a security blanket for those individuals preferably with funds from charities and privately run organizations and businesses that care.

Where we go wrong is depending on the government to do everything. There is a need for government at different levels to provide necessary services, but everything??? If you want to see that in action, check out your nearby countries like Canada, England, EU and the communist countries. Man, people are just running from the U.S. to go there.

Originally Posted by Raharu Haruha

Wow, that was messy. Your post bounced off of so many ideas... I don't know where to start.

I didn't say everyone does make 40k, I said there's no reason for them not to.

Originally Posted by BFOJ

You're right I did go off the deep end. Sorry!

I did miss your point, my only response is that some will make 40K. Is that all you were suggesting?

Originally Posted by Raharu Haruha

Yeah, and then I went quickly through a budget.

Originally Posted by BFOJ

It's the budget I choked on...