How can it exist without being totalitarian? There is no other way to nationalize industry.(Aka: have the government STEAL IT).

I'm missing something here. I asked why not use the term "revolution"? As i said, a revolution is a revolution. What the heck has the UN got to do with anything?

Communism would work if human being weren't power hungry by nature.

They guys who wrote the US Constitution realized that people needed to have their power kept in check.

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If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
-Albert Einstein

I didn't say it was good, but that it could work; it's all speculation though.

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Be thou faithful unto Death
And I will give thee a crown of Life

"The problem with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, it's just they know so much that isn't so"
- Ronald Reagan

"A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger, is prepared for a Master and deserves one"
- Alexander Hamilton

Oh cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.

Posted by: JavaBlack
On: 08-25-2008 07:09 AM

Communism can only survive as a small system. It's pretty much impossible to hold it together at the state level.

Posted by: kaspy
On: 08-25-2008 07:46 PM

Communism would work *if* human being weren't power hungry by nature.


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Lots of good replies in this thread.

Kaspy hit the nail on the head. Sure if we were ants or bees communism would work. The reason the ideal of communism fails is because imperfect humans have to apply the perfect ideals.

All this 'IF' talk reminds An old mentor of mine. Whenever I got 'to iffy' with him he used to tell me:

"allenwrench...if (*)(*)(*)(*) was Shinola you wouldn't have to buy shoe polish."

Yes, you can do almost anything with the word 'if'.

Communism can work (in theory). The trouble is when it comes to be applied the theory becomes corrupted with the ego of the imperfect leaders. We have to remember what is logical is not always practical when it comes to humans. If one is selfless communism's works fine. It is only when selfishness is injected that communism fails miserably.

The world has had lots of time to practice at perfecting communism and we can say communism seems to be a failure. That does not mean forms of communism or socialist governments will die off. For some it may mean the lesser of two evils.

In our future, Americans may find themselves to lean more to a community based life, As the crude dries up the gov may find it hard to help all those in need. Localized groups and communes of sorts may be all we have to turn to.

I will say for communism to be fair minded and even handed, all workers would periodically exchange jobs (best they could) from top to bottom. That way favoritism would not be such a problem.

But who wants to go from the ivory tower to shoveling (*)(*)(*)(*), so lets get real - we are dealing with human egos here. And even if we wish to 'try' and do good, one cannot replace highly skilled workers with the (*)(*)(*)(*) shoveler. So no matter how we slice it, there will always be exceptions to the rule.

Same with us in our democracy of sorts. human leaders make mistakes and just like the communists, we citizens have little or no recourse to fix those mistakes That is why revolutions come about for change. But we must be careful about what we are revolting against, as what we replace it with may be worse than what we have destroyed.

BTW, if and when America is ready for a revolt over the travesty of American political system, all you have to do is to follow the lead of our politicians and do nothing. America can be shut down by the citizens - just by doing nothing.

When it comes down to it, we are dependent on strong government to keep the invading armies at bay. But everyday life is NOT dependent on the politicians flapping their jaws and blowing hot air out their ass. What we are dependent on is each other and our cooperation at making life livable from the lowest (*)(*)(*)(*) shoveler and up the ladder to the highest doctor or airline pilot.

In the end, I choose a democracy of sorts and when the democracy fails them replace it with bits and pieces of socialized areas, but all the while trying to keep the democratic foundation and as much personal freedoms in force best we can.

What I stated was irrefutable truth and exactly what marx said not a misrepresentation of what he said. This is why you had to argue that Lenin created the idea of dictatorship of the party and marx did not ,I never mentioned the party as the above quote proves.

Marx meant dictators he MEANT slavery he MEANT genocide he MEANT oppression and it is a documented fact that he was an opium addict evben as he sat in the library learn something about him.

The results of communism ARE dictatorship , genocide and slavery wherever the idea is attempted this is a direct reflection of what the idea is sorry but you cannot seperate the two. The practice comes from the philosophy.

Defending communism the idea while admitting it's destruction and murder rate is akin to excusing and admiring the nazi ideal while admitting its crimes and no one does that. The two ideas are similar and equally evil . The practice however is not so similar since communists were far bloodier than nazis

What's it like to be so terminally smug that you are oblivious to what others say, let alone information?

A Manifesto, by definition, is a public declaration of principles, policies, or intentions of a political party. The joke (which flew in one of your ears and out the other) about a Constitution was meant to parody the failure of communism in praxis versus the American system. Your statements about the communist Manifesto being obsolete and immature are spot on. It also never attained maturity.

Furthermore, we are not talking about Marx, we are talking about communism, hence the theme of this thread. No, a country declaring itself communist does not necessarily preclude violence upon its citizens to ensure they abide by its provisions, but it sure helps, don't it. Also, the Rodney King thing was well within my time frame, sonny, and that's another thread altogether.

Finally, the pedestrian dismissal of my further statements demonstrates that you are devoid of any remaining valid points. I challenge you to indicate any "ill-informed" elements within my post.

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Two "no's" make a "yes". Can't argue with math.

I found it! I found it! The place where communism worked, Cambodia under Pol Pot. Now I know why I don't like communism and why people will march off to their death like sheep.

When someone claims they have found an irrefutable truth it alerts me to the fact that they're making an outrageously silly claim.

Now, show me where Marx suggested any of those things you claim. I think most if not all of his work is online somewhere so you should be able to find evidence for your claim.

My mention of Lenin's doctrine is historical fact, it's why the philosophy of the Soviet Union was called Marxism-Leninism.

As for the hyperbole in your post - I hope you feel better but it didn't contribute much to the discussion.

Communism, (though it wasn't called communism then) was practiced on a very small scale by the early Christian church.

There were no class divisions (there arn't supposed to be any in the church today) and the rich sold their possesions in order to help the poorer members of the church.

This kind of communism was not based at all on labour, or on getting what you worked for. Rather it was built around love of God and your neighbor.