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Old 08-23-2008, 07:57 PM
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Default Can Communism Work?

This is of course assuming it doesn't go to a dictator death-grip like most of them.

Is communism a reasonable concept?
Is it better/worse than democracy?
Why?

Discuss.

Note: China/Cuba
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Old 08-23-2008, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Solutionone View Post
This is of course assuming it doesn't go to a dictator death-grip like most of them.

Is communism a reasonable concept?
Is it better/worse than democracy?
Why?

Discuss.

Note: China/Cuba
It has been proven time and time again that it cannot work. It assumes many flawed principles. The dictator must know everything. The dictator must know exactly how and when to move resources, and what should be produced. That alone is conflicting with individuals. The biggest flaw is the idea that everyone under this system would work efficiently. If a lazy individual is guaranteed the same wage as a similar worker who also picks up their slack, it promotes cutting back effort on the part of the better worker. If an individual cannot reap the benefits of their own hard work, they will cut back. The point I just mentioned is probably the most ironic, given that communism is supposed to provide the fruits of one's labor to the individual.

In short...

1. Dictator must be omniscient and omnipotent. Total knowledge and control.

2. The community must be altruistic or at the very least not shirk to achieve the efficiency of a capitalist society. The incentive to free ride is easy for those who care little about others.
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Old 08-23-2008, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Danik View Post
1. Dictator must be omniscient and omnipotent. Total knowledge and control.
You're assuming that communism must have absolute central control as in the Stalin model. What about the China model - more decentralized, provincial and local control over programs and laws?
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Old 08-23-2008, 08:52 PM
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You're assuming that communism must have absolute central control as in the Stalin model. What about the China model - more decentralized, provincial and local control over programs and laws?
If China was true communism, there wouldn't be classes. There wouldn't be some people starving and other people living comfortably. The principles, if I'm not mistaken, are to earn what you can, and get what you need.

I think Communism could work for some people, but I doubt said people would ever congregate into a country. I wouldn't mind going through painstaking years of med school and residencies to become a doctor, and not get paid any more than some guy moping floors (assuming the government foots the bill for education), but most people would rather just work as little as possible and reap the rewards.

So in practicality, while it would be fantastic if we could give everyone what they need and just work as much as they can, there's no way it would happen. Our best bet to provide for those in need is capitalism.

But No Dictatorship will ever work. Never, Never, Never.
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Old 08-23-2008, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Solutionone View Post
This is of course assuming it doesn't go to a dictator death-grip like most of them.

Is communism a reasonable concept?
Is it better/worse than democracy?
Why?

Discuss.

Note: China/Cuba
It is worse and always does succeed . Communism is by definition a dictator with death grip and such dictatorships have been successful since man began forming governments.The USSR , Libya , Cuba , CHina ,North Korea etc are all typical communist nations as Marx himself envisioned and preached.They are the natural outcome of what his twisted and sick philosophy and vision will always lead to.

Of course every person soft on Marx's writings who reads this will claim Hunnh Unnh thats not what Marx meant but YES HE DID which is why it always ends up a brutal bloody dictatorship. Yes I know he babbled about ultimate, true , communism being the withering away of the state and all but that was just window dressing. He stated and meant a violent coup a bloody war and uprising to seize the means of production and to seize the government as well resulting in the " DIctatorship of the Proletariate" Presumably this is a NICE dictatorship or something which allows you to ignore that a dictator is a dictator . Any wonder that the USSR alone slaughtered more innocent people in death camps and with applied famine than the third reich? As did china under mao? This is what dictators DO. Of course communism atrocities are excused because it is for the people or the workers or whoever.

Karl Marx captured the imagination of many people while writing his drug induced vision of utopia but read it with an objective and judgmental mind and see it for what it truly is ,a recipe for slavery genocide and tyranny.
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Old 08-23-2008, 09:02 PM
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If China was true communism, there wouldn't be classes. There wouldn't be some people starving and other people living comfortably. The principles, if I'm not mistaken, are to earn what you can, and get what you need.
Good point. The question then is has Communism ever existed, anywhere?
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Old 08-23-2008, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug_yvr View Post
Good point. The question then is has Communism ever existed, anywhere?
It existed on a very small scale in Russia before and for a bit after the revolution.
There were communal farms. It was basically a village where everyone was given a plot of land to farm and things were shared and they switched plots of lands every season.

That's the only way it could possibly work. It cannot work as the central government of a state.
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Old 08-23-2008, 09:20 PM
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The real question is would you want it to work?
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Old 08-23-2008, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Solutionone View Post
This is of course assuming it doesn't go to a dictator death-grip like most of them.

Is communism a reasonable concept?
Is it better/worse than democracy?
Why?

Discuss.

Note: China/Cuba
Yes it can work but a couple of things have to be in place.

1. Any Leninist tendencies have to immediately cut out.
2. The realisation that a society has to go through stages of development before it reaches communism is necessary. It won't happen overnight and it must move in stages.
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Old 08-23-2008, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Danik View Post
It has been proven time and time again that it cannot work. It assumes many flawed principles. The dictator must know everything. The dictator must know exactly how and when to move resources, and what should be produced. That alone is conflicting with individuals. The biggest flaw is the idea that everyone under this system would work efficiently. If a lazy individual is guaranteed the same wage as a similar worker who also picks up their slack, it promotes cutting back effort on the part of the better worker. If an individual cannot reap the benefits of their own hard work, they will cut back. The point I just mentioned is probably the most ironic, given that communism is supposed to provide the fruits of one's labor to the individual.

In short...

1. Dictator must be omniscient and omnipotent. Total knowledge and control.

2. The community must be altruistic or at the very least not shirk to achieve the efficiency of a capitalist society. The incentive to free ride is easy for those who care little about others.
Question for this
How(if) did Fidel Castro remain "omniscient and omnipotent"?

One activity that i loved in high school, was in my teambuilding/leadership segment for Political science, was when we got to alternate group problem solving techniques, such as a consensus model, a dictatorship(communist for this question), a majority rules scenario. I just thought that was awesome, really makes you think when you're small group gets more work done as a dictatorship under your control =)

Last edited by Solutionone; 08-23-2008 at 10:19 PM.
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