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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2008, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by farmer_fred View Post
So where would you have had it "stop?"
Right before male bashing/trying to convert males into females with boy parts.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2008, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Sleepy View Post
Feminism is not ruining America, it's just ruining women by keeping them victims of their circumstance. Everytime an injustice or preceived injustice is reinforced, it compels woman to wallow in self-pity and helplessness. Their glass is always half empty. There are more laws on the books to protect woman than ever before, and yet Hillary steered them back to days, of past discrimination, to re-live past hurts, resentments and what ever it takes, to prevent healing. By keeping the wounds fresh, she is guaranteed a following. Too bad, their being victimized twice, once by a bad case of the "poor me's", and again by leaders like Hillary, who hold the power to lead these poor sheep to slaughter.
Um, excuse me, but how the hell is a woman supposed to react to being discriminated against? It's not a victimless affair. For a qualified woman who is passed over for promotion in favor of a less qualified man, or who is paid less than a man doing the same job, or who is given the worst assignments while an equally qualified man gets the more desirable assignments, it costs her wages, career advancement, and it is demoralizing.

Even though the law prohibits retaliation against an employee who files a complaint or lawsuit, the reality is that it does indeed happen.

So tell us, how is a woman supposed to react when she is being discriminated against? Shrug her shoulders and say, "oh, (*)(*)(*)(*) happens?"
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Old 08-27-2008, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by static_engineer View Post
Right before male bashing/trying to convert males into females with boy parts.
Please show us where that actually happened.
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Old 08-27-2008, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by JavaBlack View Post
Yeah, because when something isn't fair, the best way to deal with it is to ignore it and fall into place. Certainly it will go away with time.


Yeah, like when we gave them the vote. They were so much happier when they had no say in government.
They don't really want equal pay for equal job... That will just reinforce to them their victimization. Instead let us pay them less so that they will be empowered.


Because obviously there is absolutely NO inequality left. Obviously Hillary is just trying to hurt them... That's why she brings up issues- oh wait... don't those issues actually ring true with many women?


Yeah, because Hillary's main goal is to put them back in the kitchen, right?
Thank you for bringing my point home. Your attitude is exactly what I'm talking about. As a proud American woman and mother, I am forever grateful for what has been accomplished by the womens movement, but I am now equal and so is my 17 year old daughter. I hope she will go on from here, and not waste time. I hope she will strive for a strong and safe America for her children and grandchildren and never stay stuck in a society that tells her, she is a victim and will always remain crippled by injustices that no longer exist.
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Old 08-27-2008, 10:40 AM
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Who is home raising our kids? No one, they are in daycare. Being raised by some stranger who probably has a house full, or worse a center with dozens of kids. Do you think these kids get the love, attention and direction they need to develop into great adults? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that women need to stay home and raise kids, men can stay home and do a fine job as well..
I agree mostly. But I think you might be overplaying the ill effects of daycare.
Also I think your last line, an important addition, points to the real problem...
It's not feminism. It's the fact that men are still held only to male gender roles and do not or cannot in a socially viable way take care of children and take up other such roles.
That is because men are ridiculed by others and even themselves for taking these "submissive" roles.
And who is responsible for that? Feminists? Nope.

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Originally Posted by static_engineer View Post
And what about the effects on men? Now all of the sudden it's cool to hate and bash men. Watch most sitcoms and commercials, men are portrayed as bumbling idiots. Either that, or men aren't allowed to be men.
If there is a bumbling idiot, sure, it will likely be a man. On the other hand, men are also usually the heroes, geniuses, etc.
And where do you see man-bashing as somehow existent where woman-bashing is not?
Most of the sitcoms these days seem to make fun of stereotypes for both.
In break rooms across America both sexes are bashing one another.

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Originally Posted by static_engineer View Post
We men are expected to get in touch with our "feminine side". We need men to be men, and stand up for what's right against what's wrong. Not sit down and talk about "feelings".
Why can't you do both?
And if men aren't expected to, why are women expected to be independent and tough? This expectation is made for single mothers all the time, even by traditionalists.
Why do you hold those perspectives to a lesser value anyway?

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So what I'm saying is that there has been some good done by the feminist movement, but I feel it has been taken too far.
I cannot

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Originally Posted by static_engineer View Post
Right before male bashing/trying to convert males into females with boy parts.
So the first part suggests that you prefer it back when bashing was one-sided and male dominated...
And the second part... Didn't you say it would be alright if men stayed home with kids? How can they do this if everything "feminine" is to be dismissed by them?
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Old 08-27-2008, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Birdzeye View Post
Um, excuse me, but how the hell is a woman supposed to react to being discriminated against? It's not a victimless affair. For a qualified woman who is passed over for promotion in favor of a less qualified man, or who is paid less than a man doing the same job, or who is given the worst assignments while an equally qualified man gets the more desirable assignments, it costs her wages, career advancement, and it is demoralizing.

Even though the law prohibits retaliation against an employee who files a complaint or lawsuit, the reality is that it does indeed happen.

So tell us, how is a woman supposed to react when she is being discriminated against? Shrug her shoulders and say, "oh, (*)(*)(*)(*) happens?"
you may be qualified as far as education and experience, there may be other reasons why you were passed over, such as diplomacy. The higher you go, the more diplomatic you must be. What would you do if a less experienced, less qualified woman got the promotion, and not you? Since you could not take any legal action, you may have to take a personal inventory, to try and correct the injustice.
Otherwise, you could always get a civil service job, which strives to have the least amount of discrimination among its workers, and we know this by all the "dead wood" floating around in government agencies.
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Old 08-27-2008, 12:10 PM
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Otherwise, you could always get a civil service job, which strives to have the least amount of discrimination among its workers, and we know this by all the "dead wood" floating around in government agencies.
You "know" that only because Reagan nailed it into your head.
I've worked both the public and private sectors and seen equal parts "dead wood". It's a function of the size of the bureaucracy involved, not whether it is public or private. And it's generally found at the lower levels.
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Old 08-27-2008, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by JavaBlack View Post
You "know" that only because Reagan nailed it into your head.
I've worked both the public and private sectors and seen equal parts "dead wood". It's a function of the size of the bureaucracy involved, not whether it is public or private. And it's generally found at the lower levels.
When was the last time you saw a civil servant get fired? No matter how much there moved, from job to job, they hang on and their paycheck and pension is guaranteed.
In the private sector, "gone in sixty seconds".
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Old 08-27-2008, 12:40 PM
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you may be qualified as far as education and experience, there may be other reasons why you were passed over, such as diplomacy. The higher you go, the more diplomatic you must be. What would you do if a less experienced, less qualified woman got the promotion, and not you? Since you could not take any legal action, you may have to take a personal inventory, to try and correct the injustice.
Otherwise, you could always get a civil service job, which strives to have the least amount of discrimination among its workers, and we know this by all the "dead wood" floating around in government agencies.

The job in question WAS a civil service job! And it wasn't just me. There was a pattern of discrimination against women, and that organization lost a lot of female talent (including me) because of it.

I took "personal inventory," and realized that I would get nowhere at that organization.

The fact that I moved elsewhere to another job, where I got three promotions in three years and more than doubled my income, was, IMO, vindication for me. Other women have done the same, and the sexists who still run that place are clueless about all the talent they lost because of their bigotry against women.
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Old 08-27-2008, 12:43 PM
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When was the last time you saw a civil servant get fired? No matter how much there moved, from job to job, they hang on and their paycheck and pension is guaranteed.
In the private sector, "gone in sixty seconds".
I know quite a few former civil servants who were fired from their cs jobs, for various reasons such as "leave abuse," getting an "unacceptable" rating on the annual performance review, and for lying about credentials on the resume.
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