Well is feminisms and Liberalism ruining the good ole USA?


Well let’s look at this logically.

Since this country was founded it has been traditionally wan works woman stays at home and works in the home for the family. This has been going on until the 1960’s. From there women have started really emerging in the work place. So you have to agree that it has changed the family structure.

Earlier in my life, it took one parent (usually man) to support a home. Now if want a good standard of living, it takes two. If women were still at home, that would cut 1/3 the work force today. Opening up other jobs for men.

But has it destroyed, I would say changed.

I think Liberalism started from women, so they go hand to hand with Feminism.
Liberalism has also changed the USA from the structure from what it was.
It is no different with immigration. When you have a section of the country change, everything changes to compensate.

If you think a country as a living breathing entity, it’s real easy to decipher.

__________________
If it was that easy, everyone would do it.

You are completely wrong; men and women are very very different creatures. Men can do some work much better then women and women can do some work better then men. There are many areas where both men and women are equally able to do the same work. For a woman to understand how a mans brain works and a man to understand how a woman’s brain works is the only way to have a happy marriage. Each brain works very differently.

Biology made the sexes different, our hormones that are the messengers telling our bodies and minds what to do are very different. Instead of celebrating the differences between a man and women, feminism has tried to say we are all the same.

My wife, being the scientist that she is has recognized the differences and uses her female intellectual brain to her advantage. By understanding the differences between a male and female brain, her work is so highly valued that she just turned down work yesterday because she is booked for a long time to come. One of her clients gives her massive medical data bases and she crunches them looking for different markers so as to create new tests and processes for them. She is paired with a male of her equal brain power. She finds things in the data that a male brain will not be able to see and he finds things in the data that a female brain can’t see. Together their work is brilliant, to the point that they are being published in major per reviewed journals. It takes a male and female brain working together to do this work, either one by themselves would only get half way there.

Raising a child on breast milk is ensuring that the child is healthy and strong, so yes it matters greatly who has breasts and a penis. But then you have to believe that your children are more important then your career.

First of all, I don't think you read my comment clearly. Of course I would be fine with you discussing the problems arising out of the excesses of any of those things.

I'll even give you a gentle push down the path:

Christianity - Westboro Baptist

However, that is not what you are trying to do. You are using reducto ad absurdum in an attempt to downplay the importance or value of static's post. Static is criticizing the excesses of feminism and claims that parts of it have gone too far. He is not criticizing the fundamental principles therein such as equal pay for equal work and suffrage for all women.

Are you implying that we should not discuss the excesses of popular movements? Are you saying we shouldn't comment on and speak up when we see something potentially hazardous? I don't think you are but this post would indicate otherwise.

I'm rather surprised that this came from you; normally you are more astute than this.

__________________
"Nah, bring the amber lamps."

Bull. Advertising in the last 10 years has taken a huge swing towards portraying women as the smart and capable gender [specifically in the context of the wife] whereas the man is almost always dumber and needing the woman's help. She has the answer and she has the solution. I can think of commercials for tax returns, credit cards, car purchases, TV purchases, and even grilling hot dogs that show this exact trend.

http://www.salon.com/mwt/broadsheet/...ing/index.html

The point is that marketing and advertising have become so full of the concept that women are smart and capable that they almost don't dare show a smart and capable man as well in the same context. They have no problem portraying us as buffoons who would rather drink beer and look at porn all day but God help the company that makes the same stereotypical jab at a woman.

Take a second and read your statement again. Then read it once more. Allow how biased and completely irrational that mindset is to sink into your mind. For someone normally so clear and level-headed [though I often don't agree with your conclusions] you seem to be stuck in emotion and bitterness on this issue. You actually are trying to partially justify the actions and behaviors of these radical feminists but then claim that their critics can't have rational reasons? That's just sad.

What about men that are abused by women in the home? What about male children that are raised by women like this and are constantly taught that females are superior and men are stupid; like when comments such as 'he's actually smart because he thinks like a woman' are constantly tossed about in the home? What is your response to those cases? Are these 'males' not justified in their distaste at the excesses of the feminist movement?

__________________
"Nah, bring the amber lamps."

Me too. I know plenty of men who are feminists. They love women completely. They are strong men and sexy. They don't just (*)(*)(*)(*) women. They don't feel threatened to have a woman as an equal, or even in some cases, as a better.

Equality is what its all about. Equal pay for equal work. Equal opportunity. Equal value as human beings.

So you would state that Westboro Baptist is "Christianity gone too far"? Is that correct?

Because I would not. "Christianity gone wrong" maybe. But what makes Westboro wrong is its own traits, not some quantifiable measure of "how far" it's gone.

Same with comparing various schools of radical feminism to feminism as a whole.
To claim they are the result of "feminism gone too far" is absurd. It's "feminism gone wrong".

But in claiming that the radicalism is "feminism gone too far" he is stating that the radicalisms are somehow the quantifiable result of progressive feminism.
And if his point was that radical feminism has problems, it should have been stated as such.
Stating it as a quantifiable problem of feminism's progression would be similar to me stating that Westboro Baptist is Christianity gone too far...
It's ridiculous because this would be claiming that the tenets of radical feminism (Westboro Baptist- actually not an equivalent, since it is a specific school of thought, but good enough) are the only logical fundamentalist results of feminism (Christianity).

And if the claim is that feminism is somehow "ruining America" because it has fundamentalist outbreaks, then we could just as easily claim every idea is "ruining America".




Discuss them all you like. Maybe it would also be good to look at the little truths hidden in the hyperbole and madness (radical movements are often hyyyperbolic for the express purpose of getting attention to a point usually so subtle as to be ignored... radical feminism is full of this kindof stuff- note that most of them focus less on solutions than on pointing out problems) in addition to getting all frightened.
I'm not all that scared of radical movements so long as they stay fringe... which the radical elements of feminism have.

But suggesting that a subset of a group is a reason why the larger group is "ruining America" is fallacious.
It appeared to me that static was agreeing that feminism is damaging America and using the radicals as the examples.

__________________
"Conservatives say if you don't give the rich more money, they will lose their incentive to invest. As for the poor, they tell us they've lost all incentive because we've given them too much money."

-George Carlin

Agreed. Gone too far implies that the logical conclusion of the premise was reached which has not happened in either radical feminism or the Westboro nuts. However, sometimes it is easier to sacrifice clarity for brevity in the interests of keeping the posts semi-short.

I interpret both examples, feminazis and the Westboro fruitcakes, as concepts that stole key tenets from a well recognized social construct and subtly morphed these tenets into a bastardized and dangerous form of the original.

I think that if he knew the direction this discussion would take, he would have been more specific. I did quote his original posting above deliberately. Note that he says "in some instances." I can't find any evidence in any of his posts that he thinks feminism in general or the core tenets are 'bad.' However, I do see a recurrent theme in his posts stating that the excesses of feminism have had harmful effects on both men and women. I agree and I imagine you do as well.

Again, I think he would have been more clear had he known this specific facet of the discussion would be broached. That's why I think the phrase "in some instances" is important; it is the clear evidence we need to show that he doesn't think all of feminism is bad or even that radical feminism is the logical conclusion of 'normal' feminism. "Gone too far" implies that the current arrival was never the logical destination of the previous location of the social construct.

I think Static is concerned that radical feminism is subtly creeping in and affecting the thoughts and mental attitudes of regular feminists. It's a concern that I share; hence my posting on the advertising. While I'm not sure how far it has gone, I do see a trend beginning to develop itself in Hollywood, common TV shows, and marketing.

__________________
"Nah, bring the amber lamps."

Wow static it sounded like you were having a "poor me's" moment!

__________________
There are only two things wrong with this great nation of ours, democrats and republicans!

Not necessarily in that order.

Typical response. Men can't voice a complaint without being called 'whiners.'

Hey buck, last time I checked, this was a political discussion board where this type of stuff is supposed to brought up and talked about. Next time, try having something actually substantive to say.

__________________
"Nah, bring the amber lamps."

I don't think that feminism is what's driving women into the workplace, and our children into day-care. These things are a RESPONSE to the realities of our new global economy. In my case, I can afford to pay nearly all of my family's bills with just my salary, but I cannot afford health insurance as well. Basically, my wife works to pay the child care and health insurance, and put a couple hundred in the savings account. We just can't make it work without her contributing, and going without health insurance is NOT an option if it can be avoided.

When it comes to your feelings about "man bashing" all I can say is: "Man Up." Who gives a (*)(*)(*)(*) if actors and actresses on some lousy TV show are hammering on male stereotypes. Or, to quote one of my former mentors "What, are you a broad, that I gotta worry about your feelings now?" I grew up in a big family, several brothers and several sisters. They (the sisters) were very empowered (my mother was incredibly strong-willed), and more than willing to stand up for what's right against what's wrong. Not sit down and talk about "feelings". If you wronged them they'd set you right. As a result, the men in my family are MORE "man" than we would have been growing up around a bunch of deferring little ladies. All men in this country would be better for it if they'd been exposed to some of that growing up.

Just my opinion.

As for whether Liberalism is ruining the country, I'm not sure there's a certified definition of "Liberal" that everyone would agree on, so I'll leave that one alone.

__________________
Boy...If you're gonna ride dirty in O-town, you'd better have a bell on your bike.