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  #121 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2008, 05:41 PM
Rothbardian Rothbardian is offline
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Originally Posted by Doug_yvr View Post
How would reducing minimum wage create jobs? Unless you're willing to tolerate 3rd world wage standards I don't see the point. And yes, 3rd world wage standards would create jobs in the US. And poverty.
I'll give you a clue, the people who would be employed for these so called "3rd world wages" aren't employed at all with a minimum wage.

As for poverty, there's plenty of that.
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  #122 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2008, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Xandufar View Post
It's a rehash of the same crap we fought a revolution against.
You do realise that the conclusions most Austrian School Economists support are essentially the same things you fought a revolution for.

Ignorance is strength? Right?
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  #123 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2008, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Rothbardian View Post
You do realise that the conclusions most Austrian School Economists support are essentially the same things you fought a revolution for.
I'd like to see how you can support that whopper, and the monarchism behind it.
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Old 09-01-2008, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Xandufar View Post
I'd like to see how you can support that whopper, and the monarchism behind it.
Well the Austrian school adherents are supporters of private property rights. You know who the founding fathers were influenced by? John Locke, who supported? Private property rights.

Most Austrian School economists are minarchists/ anarchists (well, I'd say all, but it needn't be so), funnily enough so were most of the revolutionaries.

Now tell me what you know, or think you know about the Austrian School.
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Old 09-01-2008, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Rothbardian View Post
Well the Austrian school adherents are supporters of private property rights. You know who the founding fathers were influenced by? John Locke, who supported? Private property rights.

Most Austrian School economists are minarchists/ anarchists (well, I'd say all, but it needn't be so), funnily enough so were most of the revolutionaries.

Now tell me what you know, or think you know about the Austrian School.
You are wrong. John Locke penned the constitution of South Carolina, which was the first state to secede from the Union. No surprise. Where his constituition read "Life, Liberty, and Property," the Unted States Constitution read "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness." This demonstrates to anyone who has a degree of literacy with respect to the philosophical debate that lead to the formation of the United States, that the founders rejected Locke at an axiomatic level.
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Old 09-01-2008, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Xandufar View Post
You are wrong. John Locke penned the constitution of South Carolina, which was the first state to secede from the Union. No surprise. Where his constituition read "Life, Liberty, and Property," the Unted States Constitution read "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness." This demonstrates to anyone who has a degree of literacy with respect to the philosophical debate that lead to the formation of the United States, that the founders rejected Locke at an axiomatic level.
John Locke died 75 years before the American Revolution. I think you're confused.

Last edited by Rothbardian; 09-01-2008 at 06:06 PM.
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Old 09-01-2008, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Rothbardian View Post
John Locke died 75 years before the American Revolution. I think you're confused.
Lol. The Austrian school is so so concerned with the element of time, and yet you can say that. I'm confused?
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  #128 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2008, 08:29 PM
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Nationalize the Federal Reserve, and recreate it as the Third National Bank of the United States of America. Use this bank to issue new credit per article 1, section 8 of the United States Constitution. Start with a trillion dollars of brand new currency to be spent on large-scale federal, state, county, and municipal infrastructure projects including the construction of nuclear power plants to power the repair and construction of bridges, highways, railroads, dams, reservoirs, schools, and hospitals.

Make similar, low interest-rate credit available to private enterprises for the production and technological development of machine tools and equipment to get the job done. Allow no new credit to be made available for unproductive and wasteful spending by speculators, gamblers, magicians, and thieves. For example, no credit will be made available for paper traders on Wall Street, or any other street. No credit will be made available for gambling casinos, whorehouses, crackhouses, or idiots who oppose the development of the economy due to existential, nihilistic, or environmental reasons.

As a vital, extra boost to the economy, double the minimum wage to increase the ability of American workers to buy more of what they produce, and to provide excellent health care and higher education to their families, thus guaranteeing the continued renewal of a healthy, educated, and skilled workforce.

Finally, slowly extinguish the wasteful activities of speculators, magicians, and thieves by imposing a minimum 1% tax on all securities transactions. This tax will be paid by the seller of all varieties of financial derivatives, futures contracts, and all other financial toilet paper that diverts capital from real production, and rewards parasites. This 1% tax will provide a massive initial boost to the capital reserves of the newly created Third National Bank of the United States, and shut the mouths of the idiots who will inevitably say one, or both of two things: "How will you pay for it all?" "It will cause inflation."
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Last edited by Xandufar; 09-01-2008 at 08:36 PM.
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Old 09-01-2008, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by OldManOnFire View Post
Can you name a single policy change within our federal government that can create millions of skilled jobs for middle-class America??

If your answer requires government funding, then I would ask that you also provide the method for obtaining the funding. Like higher taxes, killing some other program(s), more debt, etc.

If you think this must be accomplished by the private sector, please explain the industry and what the impetus will be to kick-start such a process.
A Conservative Two Stage Solution:
  1. Collect $100.00 per adult per month from all ILLEGAL's and $50.00 for each of their kid's (no matter if they were born here or not) to be ALLOWED to stay in the USA (and remain a Mexican or whatever they are) with a Monthly renewable ID card for each of them - NO CARD - Deport on the spot!
    that will reduce the increased illegal birth rate in the USA, too!
  2. give employer's a $500.00 refund for every FULL TIME (40 hour) wage increased by $1.00 per hour. Make employee wage rebates available every quarter the business increases that employee's wage by a dollar ($1. per hour x $500. per quarter x 4 quarters = $4.00 an hour wage increase which is over $8,000.00 a year possible or at least $2,000 if only one wage increase) to improve the national taxes and business growth AND to make it possible for more competition between businesses to reward good workers.

... just a couple ideas that makes sense to me
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:59 AM
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[quote]
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Originally Posted by Shep Dawg View Post
You cannot possibly say that you believe educating people up to "worker bee" status is sound for the economy and jobs.
Yes I am saying that...for some people...while others can handle higher education. Education cannot be one thing which is the problem we have today! We have one generic education system for millions of kids who have critical differences in their goals, capabilities, support group, interest, energy, health, etc.

But here is another part of your education issue; suppose we took 20 million unskilled workers and gave all of them a 2-year college education in something. How does this create more jobs??

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I'm not sure exactly which plan you're looking at, but I wouldn't endorse that particular plan. There is more than 1 way to fix the health care system. And if there isn't one more efficient than that, well I'm sure we could draft one. Reducing fraud would be good place to start. And there is no way that every man, woman, and child would cost near $10,000 for health care. B.S. red tape accounts for most of that.
Well...articles I've read approximate the annual health care spending at about $2 trillion. If you wish to convert this to Universal Health Care, then UHC will cost $2 trillion as well. And this $2 trillion is quickly climbing to $3-$4 trillion. So if you do the math; $3 trillion/300 million citizens (=) $10,000 per person cost to our government.

Yes there is waste in there and probably lots of unnecessary charges and costs, etc. and I say good luck in my lifetime reducing this cost.

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Agreed. I'm not talking about the number of people who can't work due to disability. I'm talking about the people who either can't find work, or just wont work, and want to draw a check. The system should be efficient, and there are ways of making it way more efficient than it now.
Right now about 1% are on some form of assistance. If half of these have disabilities and cannot work, then we're talking about 1/2% of the US population are on 'questionable' welfare. 1/2% is probably considered 'efficient'.

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Regarding expensive that is a relative term depending on how much money you have. I love this argument. While you are correct to say 90% of don't have the money to shop quality! You then fail to mention, one of the reasons for this is all of the jobs that are now overseas. When a guy loses his $35 dollar an hour job as a plant foreman because the company move the factory overseas, and then has to replace it with a $12.00 an hour job at Walmart selling the Chinese made knockoffs of the products he used to make. Yeah, you're right. I guess he doesn't have the money to shop quality anymore.
It makes no difference the reasons...reality suggests that most people do not shop for quality...price is the driving factor.

Quote:
The fallacy is that in spite of what some would like to believe, it works both ways. Better jobs mean people can afford higher quality products. Most people shop price when they have to, not because they necessarily want to. People will usually buy quality if they can afford to. Have you ever seen a wealthy guy driving a Chinese Ferrari?
You are dead wrong if you believe only poor people shop at Wal-Mart and Costco, etc.

Better jobs do not mean people can afford more quality. If people with better jobs manage their finances well and have discretionary funds available, then 'sometimes' they can shop quality. The same scenario applies to lower wage earners.

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Uhmm... No, of course not. The whole key to your sentence is " I hire lots of day-labor, I pay $12/hour". And first off congratulations on paying a fair wage. Hiring day-labor for seasonal work is hardly the same a employing undocumented immigrants at corporations full time, for substandard wages, and no benefits. Especially when it also involves the loss of an American job for the sole benefit of creating more profit for the corporation. So yeah, if the Companies are going to hire immigrant workers, they should have to pay the same as they would an American worker, with the same benefits. Therefore there in no reason to hire the immigrant worker over the American worker other than performance.
Don't congratulate me...I don't set the wages. They are set by supply and demand and in my area they are $12/hour and up.

There are very few companies who are openly hiring undocumented workers to replace US citizens and I'm guessing you don't know this data?? Sure there will always be unscrupulous employers, and they will still be here even if we didn't have undocumented workers.

Quote:
Again, many so called good jobs are now being performed in the U.S. by immigrant workers being exploited for low wages.
No one is being exploited!! We have far too many unskilled workers compared to the demand for jobs. High supply and low demand equals lower pay!!

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A good friend of mine worked as a meat cutter for a company in the mid west
that was recently raided, and hundred's of illegal immigrant's were rounded up. He made $32/hr. He was "laid off" due to lack of profits. His job was replaced the very next day by an undocumented worker from Mexico making $8/hr. You know what? Meat prices haven't come down. The only thing that happened was an American family was out of their job, and the Company made a higher profit.
A rare example of hiring undocumented workers. And stop and think that if we didn't have all these unskilled workers willing to work for less than union wages, the prices of that meat you mention would be much higher!

Quote:
So I ask you, why do Americans have to "compete" as you say with the unskilled labor pool for lower wages?
Because this is simply supply and demand...
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