No. The constitution grants the Legislative Branch of government to govern the monetary system. To wit, Article 1, section 8 grants the Legislative Branch "To coin money and regulate the value thereof.".



Pretty much.

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"Happiness lies not in the mere possession of money; it lies in the joy of achievement, in the thrill of creative effort. The joy and moral stimulation of work no longer must be forgotten in the mad chase of evanescent profits." FDR-First Inaugural Address

I've been complaining about this for years, but no oen listens, who cares that the debt America is going to accumulate is bigger than all the wealth in the world!!!!!! Change is needed of some sort and people are foolish to assume that the GOP or Democrats can deliver this....

The multiparty system needs to arise but the problem is is that the two party system is so entrenched which will eventually lead to something bad. Such is Karma and Life.....

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I'll tell you this no eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn
You may bury my body, down by the highway side,
so my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride.
You and I must fight to survive

People on the parasite controlled media. and in the streets, the houses you see with banners, or car bumper stickers supporting either democrat or republican make up what percentage? about 0.2%? that's about it. Parasites realised that to have a complete control you don't need to have a 'dictatorship'. All you need is control of the media and you can manipulate people any way you want: I've seen 10 times more support banners for Ron Paul then for Hillary IN THE STREETS, NONE for McCain, but on the media it's a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT thing

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Obama, Bob Gates, Colin Powel, Hillary Clinton and other war criminals from Bush administration… Yes, it's a change we can forget about, because do not forget, it was a candidate brought to you by a non democratic media, while any real candidate has been obscured by it.

You will not see any change until you unite for democratic media.

The operative word being "coin".
Federalist paper No. 44

This is why there is no mention of "bills of credit" in the Constitution but there is the phrase "coin money".

__________________
"Our liberties we prize and our rights we will maintain"- Iowa state motto
-Proof-hunter

Ventura/ Paul '12

Interesting point. I read the Federalist Papers years ago, and I was thinking, "I bet Hamilton did not write No. 44." He would have said no such thing. James Madison wrote that.

Nonetheless, the government has maintaned the power to prints bills of credit, through the Treasury Department, but it essentially allows the Federal Reserve to "regulate the value thereof." All new bills of credit are passed through the Federal Reserve, first. Hence the Federal Reserve determines who gets to spend them, first.

Who gets to spend them first? Answer: The same private banks that own the Federal Reserve. And they don't really spend them. Rather, they lend them, and they charge interest to you, the same citizen that pays to cover the operating cost of the whole shenanigan, on top of everything else. If you follow the shells as they are being shuffled in this shell game, you can see that you are getting screwed by sleight of hand, every step of the way.

That's why I have long advoctated the creation of a Third National Bank under the control of the Treasury Department. The Treasury Department could continue to coin money, and prints bills of credit, but they could issue them directly into useful economic activity. In other words, the first person who gets to spend each new coin or bill of credit is a construction worker on a public works project, or a worker on a production line. As the economy grows, the National Bank could make easy, low interest credit available to any citizen or any private entrepeneur with a viable need.

Let's cut off the parasite.

__________________
"Happiness lies not in the mere possession of money; it lies in the joy of achievement, in the thrill of creative effort. The joy and moral stimulation of work no longer must be forgotten in the mad chase of evanescent profits." FDR-First Inaugural Address

I won't so much voice my opinion on the issue as much as explain how this all works. Basically the government sells bonds which is basically a loan to people or banks in order to raise funds. So lets say the government sold me a bond for $1000. I would probably get over the course of 3-10 years $1050-$1100 back making it a 5-10% loan. Remember the term war bonds from WWII? This is the same concept only a bond can be used to fun a number of things, not just war.

This adds up when your giving away millions of these in the $1000s and even $10,000s. Because these bonds are sold on the market anyone can buy them including other governments and their banks. I would imagine the US government gives out 100's of billions a year although it varies greatly from year to year. I think most of these creditors that we are indebted to are actually the banks of foreign countries rather then the countries themselves although I could be wrong.

Now the US could feasibly not pay these loans back as you suggest, but the US has historically been considered a great place to invest your money. The US is a economically secure nation, that is more then capable of defending itself and thus your investment. If the US did not pay back the loans then it's credit rating would suffer sort to speak. People would be less likely to loan money to it and they would charge greater interest. This isn't bad if the US decides not to loan money anymore however we know the government won't so we'd basically just start getting charged higher interest on loans.

We look at the national debt and just turn a blind eye to it. We (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) about taxes. We would (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) if either McCain or Obama raised them. We actually have no buget we are broke. until this is paid back the US should not be able to make a budget.
Washington does this with mirrors. We will make a budget and spend spend spend when there is nothing to spend. Whatever comes in from taxes should go to paying the nations that loaned us there money back. That would be the fastest way to get spending down. We wouldn't get any services and think of the unemployment.
There is no excuse for this debt.
The next time we (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) about taxes we should think about the money we owe. We don't have any money.

__________________
Bill Ayers for Secretary of Education
The first duty of a revolutionary is to get away with it. Abbie Hoffman
Imagine no possesions, I wonder if you can, No need for greed or hunger, A brotherhood of man. Imagine all the people Sharing all the world. John Lennon
I've been smiling lately, dreaming about the world as one. And I believe it could be someday it's going to come. Cat Stevens
Member: Bottom feeders Local 101

Show me the... uhh... "money".

I think you may be mistaking the intent of the phrase "regulating the value" also. It does not mean that they get to "determine" the value (for after all how could any government determine the value of a gold coin?). By "regulating value" they meant setting denominations.

Again, it's all in the federalist/ antifederalist papers as well as the ratification discussions. They clearly did *not* want valueless paper currency and thus made it a point to not extend that power to the Federal government.

They did not "maintain" that power because they did not have that power in the first place.

In fact, there is nothing to this day that authorizes a Treasury department and certainly nothing that grants it the power to issue bills of credit.
The loophole is in the 14th amendment that allows them to incur debt.

__________________
"Our liberties we prize and our rights we will maintain"- Iowa state motto
-Proof-hunter

Ventura/ Paul '12

150,000,000 economic stimulus package. This was paid and added to the debt. Everyone liked to see this. i bet we all spent it or banked it. It was money that we did not have to give back. It was money that was spent by administrations long dead.

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/r...ebt_histo5.htm

YEAR Amount
09/30/2007 9,007,653,372,262.48
09/30/2006 8,506,973,899,215.23
09/30/2005 7,932,709,661,723.50
09/30/2004 7,379,052,696,330.32
09/30/2003 6,783,231,062,743.62
09/30/2002 6,228,235,965,597.16
09/30/2001 5,807,463,412,200.06
09/30/2000 5,674,178,209,886.86
09/30/1999 5,656,270,901,615.43
09/30/1998 5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997 5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996 5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995 4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994 4,692,749,910,013.32
09/30/1993 4,411,488,883,139.38
09/30/1992 4,064,620,655,521.66
09/30/1991 3,665,303,351,697.03
09/28/1990 3,233,313,451,777.25
09/29/1989 2,857,430,960,187.32
09/30/1988 2,602,337,712,041.16
09/30/1987 2,350,276,890,953.00
09/30/1986 2,125,302,616,658.42
09/30/1985 * 1,823,103,000,000.00
09/30/1984 * 1,572,266,000,000.00
09/30/1983 * 1,377,210,000,000.00
09/30/1982 * 1,142,034,000,000.00
09/30/1981 * 997,855,000,000.00
09/30/1980 * 907,701,000,000.00
09/30/1979 * 826,519,000,000.00
09/30/1978 * 771,544,000,000.00
09/30/1977 * 698,840,000,000.00
06/30/1976 * 620,433,000,000.00
06/30/1975 * 533,189,000,000.00
06/30/1974 475,059,815,731.55
06/30/1973 458,141,605,312.09
06/30/1972 427,260,460,940.50
06/30/1971 398,129,744,455.54
06/30/1970 370,918,706,949.93
06/30/1969 353,720,253,841.41
06/30/1968 347,578,406,425.88
06/30/1967 326,220,937,794.54
06/30/1966 319,907,087,795.48
06/30/1965 317,273,898,983.64
06/30/1964 311,712,899,257.30
06/30/1963 305,859,632,996.41
06/30/1962 298,200,822,720.87
06/30/1961 288,970,938,610.05
06/30/1960 286,330,760,848.37
06/30/1959 284,705,907,078.22
06/30/1958 276,343,217,745.81
06/30/1957 270,527,171,896.43
06/30/1956 272,750,813,649.32
06/30/1955 274,374,222,802.62
06/30/1954 271,259,599,108.46
06/30/1953 266,071,061,638.57
06/30/1952 259,105,178,785.43
06/29/1951 255,221,976,814.93
06/30/1950 257,357,352,351.04
06/30/1949 252,770,359,860.33
06/30/1948 252,292,246,512.99
06/30/1947 258,286,383,108.67
06/28/1946 269,422,099,173.26
06/30/1945 258,682,187,409.93
06/30/1944 201,003,387,221.13
06/30/1943 136,696,090,329.90
06/30/1942 72,422,445,116.22
06/30/1941 48,961,443,535.71
06/29/1940 42,967,531,037.68
06/30/1939 40,439,532,411.11
06/30/1938 37,164,740,315.45
06/30/1937 36,424,613,732.29
06/30/1936 33,778,543,493.73
06/29/1935 28,700,892,624.53
06/30/1934 27,053,141,414.48
06/30/1933 22,538,672,560.15
06/30/1932 19,487,002,444.13
06/30/1931 16,801,281,491.71
06/30/1930 16,185,309,831.43
06/29/1929 16,931,088,484.10
06/30/1928 17,604,293,201.43
06/30/1927 18,511,906,931.85
06/30/1926 19,643,216,315.19
06/30/1925 20,516,193,887.90
06/30/1924 21,250,812,989.49
06/30/1923 22,349,707,365.36
06/30/1922 22,963,381,708.31
06/30/1921 23,977,450,552.54
07/01/1920 25,952,456,406.16
07/01/1919 27,390,970,113.12
07/01/1918 14,592,161,414.00
07/01/1917 5,717,770,279.52
07/01/1916 3,609,244,262.16
07/01/1915 3,058,136,873.16
07/01/1914 2,912,499,269.16
07/01/1913 2,916,204,913.66
07/01/1912 2,868,373,874.16
07/01/1911 2,765,600,606.69
07/01/1910 2,652,665,838.04
07/01/1909 2,639,546,241.04
07/01/1908 2,626,806,271.54
07/01/1907 2,457,188,061.54
07/01/1906 2,337,161,839.04
07/01/1905 2,274,615,063.84
07/01/1904 2,264,003,585.14
07/01/1903 2,202,464,781.89
07/01/1902 2,158,610,445.89
07/01/1901 2,143,326,933.89
07/01/1900 2,136,961,091.67
07/01/1899 1,991,927,306.92
07/01/1898 1,796,531,995.90
07/01/1897 1,817,672,665.90
07/01/1896 1,769,840,323.40
07/01/1895 1,676,120,983.25
07/01/1894 1,632,253,636.68
07/01/1893 1,545,985,686.13
07/01/1892 1,588,464,144.63
07/01/1891 1,545,996,591.61
07/01/1890 1,552,140,204.73
07/01/1889 1,619,052,922.23
07/01/1888 1,692,858,984.58
07/01/1887 1,657,602,592.63
07/01/1886 1,775,063,013.78
07/01/1885 1,863,964,873.14
07/01/1884 1,830,528,923.57
07/01/1883 1,884,171,728.07
07/01/1882 1,918,312,994.03
07/01/1881 2,069,013,569.58
07/01/1880 2,120,415,370.63
07/01/1879 2,349,567,482.04
07/01/1878 2,256,205,892.53
07/01/1877 2,205,301,392.10
07/01/1876 2,180,395,067.15
07/01/1875 2,232,284,531.95
07/01/1874 2,251,690,468.43
07/01/1873 2,234,482,993.20
07/01/1872 2,253,251,328.78
07/01/1871 2,353,211,332.32
07/01/1870 2,480,672,427.81
07/01/1869 2,588,452,213.94
07/01/1868 2,611,687,851.19
07/01/1867 2,678,126,103.87
07/01/1866 2,773,236,173.69
07/01/1865 2,680,647,869.74
07/01/1864 1,815,784,370.57
07/01/1863 1,119,772,138.63
07/01/1862 524,176,412.13
07/01/1861 90,580,873.72
07/01/1860 64,842,287.88
07/01/1859 58,496,837.88
07/01/1858 44,911,881.03
07/01/1857 28,699,831.85
07/01/1856 31,972,537.90
07/01/1855 35,586,956.56
07/01/1854 42,242,222.42
07/01/1853 59,803,117.70
07/01/1852 66,199,341.71
07/01/1851 68,304,796.02
07/01/1850 63,452,773.55
07/01/1849 63,061,858.69
07/01/1848 47,044,862.23
07/01/1847 38,826,534.77
07/01/1846 15,550,202.97
07/01/1845 15,925,303.01
07/01/1844 23,461,652.50
07/01/1843 32,742,922.00
01/01/1843 20,201,226.27
01/01/1842 13,594,480.73
01/01/1841 5,250,875.54
01/01/1840 3,573,343.82
01/01/1839 10,434,221.14
01/01/1838 3,308,124.07
01/01/1837 336,957.83
01/01/1836 37,513.05
01/01/1835 33,733.05
01/01/1834 4,760,082.08
01/01/1833 7,001,698.83
01/01/1832 24,322,235.18
01/01/1831 39,123,191.68
01/01/1830 48,565,406.50
01/01/1829 58,421,413.67
01/01/1828 67,475,043.87
01/01/1827 73,987,357.20
01/01/1826 81,054,059.99
01/01/1825 83,788,432.71
01/01/1824 90,269,777.77
01/01/1823 90,875,877.28
01/01/1822 93,546,676.98
01/01/1821 89,987,427.66
01/01/1820 91,015,566.15
01/01/1819 95,529,648.28
01/01/1818 103,466,633.83
01/01/1817 123,491,965.16
01/01/1816 127,334,933.74
01/01/1815 99,833,660.15
01/01/1814 81,487,846.24
01/01/1813 55,962,827.57
01/01/1812 45,209,737.90
01/01/1811 48,005,587.76
01/01/1810 53,173,217.52
01/01/1809 57,023,192.09
01/01/1808 65,196,317.97
01/01/1807 69,218,398.64
01/01/1806 75,723,270.66
01/01/1805 82,312,150.50
01/01/1804 86,427,120.88
01/01/1803 77,054,686.40
01/01/1802 80,712,632.25
01/01/1801 83,038,050.80
01/01/1800 82,976,294.35
01/01/1799 78,408,669.77
01/01/1798 79,228,529.12
01/01/1797 82,064,479.33
01/01/1796 83,762,172.07
01/01/1795 80,747,587.39
01/01/1794 78,427,404.77
01/01/1793 80,358,634.04
01/01/1792 77,227,924.66
01/01/1791 75,463,476.52
This is the chart showing what we really owe.

__________________
Bill Ayers for Secretary of Education
The first duty of a revolutionary is to get away with it. Abbie Hoffman
Imagine no possesions, I wonder if you can, No need for greed or hunger, A brotherhood of man. Imagine all the people Sharing all the world. John Lennon
I've been smiling lately, dreaming about the world as one. And I believe it could be someday it's going to come. Cat Stevens
Member: Bottom feeders Local 101

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