There are topics about this, and when I posted a reply it seems to just be ignored, plus these other topics seem to be focused on how to pay, mine is focused on why pay and who lent us this money....

So a corrupt government borrows money to do criminal acts which all of us supposedly are so against, such as invade under false pretense, threaten, harrass, create more tensions, revive arms race etc....

WHO exactly LENDS GOVERNMENT THIS MONEY that we're now in debt to?
Supposedly we're in debt to Russia and China? did their governments lend us the money or is it more BS? did some Russian banksters lent us this money?

I tried to get a loan for a property from a bank a year ago and could not (god helped me instead god bless) yet banksters lend to the criminal gang to do a criminal thing. I am so p----d i could rip these bankers appart. How dare anyone in here dares to say "we owe debt and we should pay off our debt"

pleade debate. I want to hear your opinions.

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Obama, Bob Gates, Colin Powel, Hillary Clinton and other war criminals from Bush administration… Yes, it's a change we can forget about, because do not forget, it was a candidate brought to you by a non democratic media, while any real candidate has been obscured by it.

You will not see any change until you unite for democratic media.

Everything that is wrong with our government is our own doing. All of it. It is up to each of us to educate our neighbors and reignite the cause of liberty in this country.
Like it or not, the debt will come due and we will either pay it or suffer the complete, final, catastrophic meltdown of our economy. Our creditors will not merely say "okay, nevermind. Go ahead and keep it". They expect to be paid their principal with interest. If this is not done then our credit is no longer good and our money (which HAS NO INTRINSIC VALUE) will have an exchange rate equal to it's weight in used toilet paper. We do not have a choice in the matter.

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"Our liberties we prize and our rights we will maintain"- Iowa state motto
-Proof-hunter

Ventura/ Paul '12

1. What if I invest in a bank robber, and he gets arrested, do I get my money back?
2. Who exactly are these 'creditors'?
3. Why do they invest in illegal criminal activities?
4. How do these 'creditors' gain their credits/wealth?
5. How is it my own doing that my government fooled me? -even though I voted for Bush in 2000 because he ran promissing no nation building.

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Obama, Bob Gates, Colin Powel, Hillary Clinton and other war criminals from Bush administration… Yes, it's a change we can forget about, because do not forget, it was a candidate brought to you by a non democratic media, while any real candidate has been obscured by it.

You will not see any change until you unite for democratic media.

well said , it would hurt us as much as growing the debt .The ony way to go is cutbacks and payback.










God Bless America

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Aint but three things in this world thats worth a solitary dime,
But old dogs and children and watermelon wine.
Tom T. Hall
http://www.politicalforum.com/group.php?groupid=43

On the debt.

The biggest chunk is money the government owes itself.

See when you pay social security related taxes it isn't invested or anything. It is immediately used and the government writes itself an I.O.U.

This isn't exactly a bad idea as the rates on borrowing the money would probably be worse than those gained by investing it. Note that when some people say Bill Clinton balanced the budget they mean if you don't count the I.O.Us the government was writing to itself in this way.

Not paying that debt would mean halting social security.

Another large group is Americans. Does your Grandmother have some bonds? Issuing those is how debt is held internally. I shouldn't have to explain not paying those.

Then there are the foriegn held portion of the debt. A lot of that is also entities that just chose to buy US bonds. Though some is from efforts by foreign banks to build up currency reserves. Notably in China and Japan.

Here's a breakdown.





The trick of course is that not paying or printing money tanks the value of the dollar and probably our economy. Well, I suppose since the government owes it to itself it could write off the social security stuff without impacting the dollar too much. Roughly halving the debt. But that would be a political and humanitarian nightmare.

I wonder if it would be better if the government invested the money it takes from us for Social Security? or better yet let us invest our own ?

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Aint but three things in this world thats worth a solitary dime,
But old dogs and children and watermelon wine.
Tom T. Hall
http://www.politicalforum.com/group.php?groupid=43

I read every one of your posts here and thx for posting, but nobody even attempted to answer any of my main questions, that is alarming

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Obama, Bob Gates, Colin Powel, Hillary Clinton and other war criminals from Bush administration… Yes, it's a change we can forget about, because do not forget, it was a candidate brought to you by a non democratic media, while any real candidate has been obscured by it.

You will not see any change until you unite for democratic media.

submarinepainter attempted to answer your question, but he obscured the truth when he said, "The biggest chunk is money the government owes itself." Most of the debt is owed to the Federal Reserve which is a quasi-governmental organization at best. It is privately owned, but the board of governors that runs it is appointed by the government.

The answer to your question is not really complicated. Every time government revenue falls short of the budget, the government trades pieces of paper in exchange for pieces of paper. Treasury notes for dollars. Anyone can buy these treasuries, including foreign investors, and the foreign governments cited by submarinepainter, but most of them are bought by the Federal Reserve itself. These treasury notes bear interest. If the Federal Reserve buys a $100 dollar treasury note, the government has $100 dollars of new debt, plus interest.

It's part of a simple shell game.

1. The Treasury Department (i.e., the government) prints currency and sells it to the Federal Reserve in exchange for treasury notes, plus a nominal fee of four cents per currency note.

2. The Federal Reserve uses this currency to buy treasury notes.

3. The Federal Reserve cashes in the treasury notes for their face value, plus interest.

The Federal Reserve comes out ahead. They deposit their profits in Wall Street banks--the same banks that own the Federal Reserve.

As the cycle repeats itself, the government becomes more and more indebted. They borrow more and more to cover their budgets, and to pay off debt as it matures. Private Wall Street banks are the ultimate beneficiary.

The reason you cannot get a loan is also very simple. Think of the Federal Reserve and the private Wall Street Banks as a single parasite, and think of the government as the host. Remember that you, as a taxpaying citizen, are part of the government.

This parasite has grown so large that it's host cannot provide enough fresh blood to sustain it's growing appetite. Meanwhile, you, personally, have been weakened by all the sucking, and need a loan to survive. However, you have to ask the same parasite for a loan. The parasite figures that you are too weak to repay the loan, so you are denied. It is content to keep sucking you in the form of income tax until you are dead, at which time the parasite will also begin to die because it has nothing left to suck on.

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"Happiness lies not in the mere possession of money; it lies in the joy of achievement, in the thrill of creative effort. The joy and moral stimulation of work no longer must be forgotten in the mad chase of evanescent profits." FDR-First Inaugural Address

Thank You very much for the very logical explanation. it makes perfect sense. Fortunately for me though, I made all that I needed to make to buy the property in time that I was trying to get a loan.

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Obama, Bob Gates, Colin Powel, Hillary Clinton and other war criminals from Bush administration… Yes, it's a change we can forget about, because do not forget, it was a candidate brought to you by a non democratic media, while any real candidate has been obscured by it.

You will not see any change until you unite for democratic media.

Xandufar nailed it, but I need to add a little sumpin':
The reason this 'quasi-governmental' arrangement exists is because it's illegal for the government to engage in this behavior directly.
They cannot pull "money" out of the inkwell themselves, so they contract a group of banks to pull it out for them. Then they "borrow" this nonexistent money (with interest; the "prime rate") and pretend it's real. The kicker is you get to pay for it three times.
Once because every worthless dollar they add to the economy devalues every dollar you've saved (inflation), plus you still have to pay the interest on nonexistent money, and you still have to pay back the principal that never existed in the first place. The first payment vanishes into thin air while you're sleepin', and when you wake up in the morning your coffee is now $.65 instead of $.52. The others are taken out of your paycheck directly by the IRS. Nice, huh?
They've even made it illegal to protect yourself from this scheme by using real money. Just an added touch.
Do yourself a favor: invest your money in real assets that don't inflate. You'll be better off when the crash comes.

__________________
"Our liberties we prize and our rights we will maintain"- Iowa state motto
-Proof-hunter

Ventura/ Paul '12