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Old 09-13-2008, 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Diuretic View Post
I don't know all that much about him, I admit that. I do seem to remember reading somewhere that his wacky theories led to a famine due to harvest failure, I think (not sure) that it might have been in Ukraine.

I didn't know Kruschev was a supporter, I would have thought that he would have been a bit more rational and less dogmatic but there you go, how wrong can I be. Thanks for that info.
Yeah thats the guy, Kruschev always saw himself as an agricultural expert, so this guys thinking really fit in with who Kruschev saw himself as being

Some of the stuff was so stupid. In one year an increase in crops was announced as being 10% this was purely decided from a form farmers had to fill out, and not any actual tonnage data
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Old 09-13-2008, 04:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Wizard From Oz View Post
Yeah thats the guy, Kruschev always saw himself as an agricultural expert, so this guys thinking really fit in with who Kruschev saw himself as being

Some of the stuff was so stupid. In one year an increase in crops was announced as being 10% this was purely decided from a form farmers had to fill out, and not any actual tonnage data
Head office had to be placated. That's the sort of situation that condemns the idea of a command economy and a closed form of government. If only we can all learn from that kind of rank stupidity.
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Old 09-13-2008, 04:28 AM
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Head office had to be placated. That's the sort of situation that condemns the idea of a command economy and a closed form of government. If only we can all learn from that kind of rank stupidity.
A friend of mine years ago, visited the Soviet Union just before the collapse. He was in logistics, but said the biggest problem the Soviets had was infrastructure. They could grow enough food, but could not get it to market fast enough before it spoiled.

He saw whole trains of crops being dumped because the unload process was so backlogged the food rotted on the trains before anyone could use it
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Old 09-13-2008, 04:33 AM
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A friend of mine years ago, visited the Soviet Union just before the collapse. He was in logistics, but said the biggest problem the Soviets had was infrastructure. They could grow enough food, but could not get it to market fast enough before it spoiled.

He saw whole trains of crops being dumped because the unload process was so backlogged the food rotted on the trains before anyone could use it
A dreadful failure of a system indeed. I suppose no-one reported on it because it was bad news so it was hidden or ignored and therefore nothing could be done to correct it. Straight out incompetence but it also reminded me of the old Soviet mentality. A friend of mine some years ago went to the Soviet Union as a representative of trades unions in NSW and he was given a visit to the Militia (police) HQ in Moscow. It was an evening and he knew that evenings are the busiest time for any police force so he asked the officer on duty in HQ how many militia officers were on duty at that time ins Moscow.

The reponse?

"Enough to maintain law and order in Moscow"

Says it all.
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Old 09-13-2008, 04:59 AM
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An interesting post but a bit out there for most people. I like your thinking through it and comparing them even when I disagree. Palin is scary for the reasons you mention. I am amazed at the number of people in this nation who believe endtime is soon and support Israel not because it attempts to be a democracy but because of the religious connotations. If one (Palin) believes some outcome such as the war in Iraq has God's acceptance we are definitely in a scary place. What a change from Goldwater when nuclear holocaust seemed real and scary to now when hubris says they can do anything.
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Old 09-13-2008, 05:03 AM
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Actually opportunistic right-wingers from the beginning used the collapse of the Soviet system as a propaganda weapon, what it not widely known is that the reforms of 1963-89 effectively ended planned economics, the USSR was capitalist in fundamentals during the 60's, Khrushchev oversaw the decentralization of planning.
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Old 09-13-2008, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by midcan5 View Post
An interesting post but a bit out there for most people. I like your thinking through it and comparing them even when I disagree. Palin is scary for the reasons you mention. I am amazed at the number of people in this nation who believe endtime is soon and support Israel not because it attempts to be a democracy but because of the religious connotations. If one (Palin) believes some outcome such as the war in Iraq has God's acceptance we are definitely in a scary place. What a change from Goldwater when nuclear holocaust seemed real and scary to now when hubris says they can do anything.
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Old 09-13-2008, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Arrogathor View Post
I am going to try to explain why Creationism is wrong. This is not really simple.
It really is. Do you see any gods around? CREATIONSIM DEBUNKED.
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Old 09-13-2008, 11:34 AM
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I look at it this way:

The teachings of Jesus have NOTHING to do with where you came from. Only where you are going. Ergo, relative to Christianity, creationism vs. evolution is a non-issue.
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Old 09-14-2008, 03:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Wizard From Oz View Post
It presents a massive problem. A little bit of knowledge and a lot of speculation will always take you on a wrong tangent. Stalin never rejected Darwin, he rejected genetics. It was officially declared a psudo-science in 1934, and finally outlawed in 1948. The reason for this was poltical. Genetics was seen as an upper class pursit and a major tool of fascism

Spend some time - look up Lysenkoism, very interesting reading
Well, let me see. The quotation I posted was not something I wrote, it was a quotation from an article on the situation, it specifically said that Stalin rejected Darwinism. The television show on the history or science channel specifically said that Stalin rejected Darwinism.

Now, genetics is the only reason taht Darwinism was selected as the superior theory of evolution to Lamarckism.

You see, if genes did not exist as discrete units which could not be diluted by inheritance, then Darwinism cannot work. The gradual accumulation of change is impossible.

If genes do not exist, then Darwinist evolution cannot work because the minor changes he postulates would be diluted, cut in half then a quarter, then an eighth in each subsequent generation and their accumulation over the vast time periods necessary is impossible. Hence Lamarcks theory of acquired traits beats Darwinism in the absence of genetics.

Genetics and only genetics allows the operation of Darwinian evolution, by showing the mechanism through which discrete minor changes can be preserved and passed on from generation to generation. Rejecting genetics is rejecting Darwinism.

Read up on the scientific discourses over these two schools of thought in the 19th century.

Last edited by Arrogathor; 09-14-2008 at 03:19 AM.
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