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Thread: The U.S healthcare fiasco

  1. Default The U.S healthcare fiasco

    I'm personally sick of this topic and the misinformation out there.

    Yes ACA has problems but anyone who knows the facts understands that healthcare was a mess before ACA and ACA was never going to fix the many problems a privatized system offers. When healthcare submits to profits (privatized), sick people simply become unprofitable and trying to force insurers to insure the unprofitable at affordable costs is a no win crusade. It's obvious that for insurers to recoup costs of the sick, they must make up losses elsewhere - the healthy. To even suggest that we can solve these problems by not forcing everyone to pay insurance and having the healthy pay more, is stupidity. I have yet to hear a reasonable solution to this problem.. Why do you all think every MAJOR developed country has a nationalized healthcare system?

    Now... to those who say 'repeal', i ask 'for what?' because the healthcare before ACA was as bad or worse than it is now. Not only were costs the highest of any major developed country (by a lot), millions were discriminated against for having pre-existing conditions or for being sick. The costs were also increasing at the same rate (if not more) than they are increasing now. What i don't understand is how people forget that healthcare was a mess before ACA, ACA didn't make it a mess.

    So here we are, instead of trying to improve ACA (attempting to keep the good, solving the bad) here we are with the GOP trying to go back to a system was was arguably even worse. Can congress ever get together to try and improve things? This is embarrassing and just pathetic.

    Good luck trying to come up with a better healthcare plan under a largely privatized system, it is an unsolvable riddle. Healthcare is a right, not a privilege where having healthcare is viewed as the same as having a car, a yacht or a mansion. When sick people are unprofitable business, they need to be paid for by tax payers, end of story. So let's see what Trump and GOP come up with but i anticipate cold feet very soon, because if things get worse (which they probably will), TrumpRyanCare will be to blame and Trump will not want this to be part of his legacy.
    Last edited by Mike12; Jan 04 2017 at 12:38 PM.

  2. #2

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    It is too bad that politicians can't just use some common sense and easy math to put this problem to bed.

    For example ... Medicare Part A covers our elderly (65+) who represent 13% of the population. Part A is fully funded, mostly by our 2.9% payroll tax.

    But the elderly account for about 75% of health care spending. Everyone less than 65 account for about 25%. If you do the math you can see that if we raised the payroll tax to 5% we could provide the population with Part A Medicare.

    This would not provide totally free health care. There would still be deductibles and gaps in coverage. This is where insurance companies and employers could come in - to fill in those gaps.

    This is not rocket science. Politics and politicians are what make it hard.
    “The supreme quality for leadership is unquestionably integrity. Without it, no real success is possible.” - Dwight D Eisenhower

    "Humility must always be the portion of any man who receives acclaim earned in the blood of his followers and the sacrifices of his friends." - Dwight D Eisenhower

    "We're one nation, and when anyone hurts, we all hurt together. We're all brothers and sisters. We must love each other, support each other. We are in this all together". - Donald Trump


  3. #3

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    As I understand it, before Obamacare, it was claimed that 50 or 60 million people did not have healthcare. However, if you eliminated the people that were here illegally and the young people that could afford insurance but didn't get it because they knew they would live forever, you were down to around 12 million, or about 5% of the population. So, an industry that worked pretty well for 95% of the population was destroyed in a fit of political hysteria instead of working on the limited problems. Sorry, Obama and the Dems are not very smart and it will be a mess trying to fix this mess.

  4. #4
    Location: A Liberal Bastion of SoCal
    Posts: 524

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike12 View Post
    I'm personally sick of this topic and the misinformation out there.

    Yes ACA has problems but anyone who knows the facts understands that healthcare was a mess before ACA and ACA was never going to fix the many problems a privatized system offers.
    The bolded portion is true. The fact that Pelosi proudly proclaimed that we had to pass it to know what's in it tells it all.

    The problem was that Obama and his cronies sold the program on false and arguably dishonest points: If you like your doctor, you can't keep your doctor. If you like you existing plan, you can't keep your existing plan. Premiums were supposed to go down an average of $2500 per family. Instead, they continued to climb through the roof.

    Under the ACA, the average bronze plan deductible is roughly $12,000 per year. What kind of affordability is that?

    The bottom line is that Obamacare is broken and has been since day#1. Instead of (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)ing about what the Republicans can and can't do, we owe it to give them a chance. The status quo is completely unacceptable.
    Last edited by fizbo; Jan 04 2017 at 01:46 PM.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike12 View Post
    Why do you all think every MAJOR developed country has a nationalized healthcare system?
    Only the UK, Sweden, Spain and Portugal have nationalized healthcare systems.

    The rest have single-payer systems.

    When you learn the difference, and when you come to the realization that it is the cost of medical care that drives the cost of health plan coverage, get back to us.
    The enemy numbered six hundred -- including women and children -- and we abolished them utterly, leaving not even a baby alive to cry for its dead mother. This is incomparably the greatest victory that was ever achieved by the Christian soldiers of the United States. -- Mark Twain

  6. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fizbo View Post
    The bolded portion is true. The fact that Pelosi proudly proclaimed that we had to pass it to know what's in it tells it all.

    The problem was that Obama and his cronies sold the program on false and arguably dishonest points: If you like your doctor, you can't keep your doctor. If you like you existing plan, you can't keep your existing plan. Premiums were supposed to go down an average of $2500 per family. Instead, they continued to climb through the roof.

    Under the ACA, the average bronze plan deductible is roughly $12,000 per year. What kind of affordability is that?

    The bottom line is that Obamacare is broken and has been since day#1. Instead of (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)ing about what the Republicans can and can't do, we owe it to give them a chance. The status quo is completely unacceptable.
    i'm not democrat nor republican on this subject, i just want them to come together to address the problems. You are right that Obama oversold ACA and he fell short but truthfully speaking, it wasn't better beforehand either. Costs before ACA were outrageous, continuing to skyrocket and insurance companies had life time caps and discriminated against the most in need (an amoral practice in the name of profits). Reality is that ACA failed to address many of the problems but at least it did some good things (eliminated discriminatory practices against the most in need and lifetime limits etc..). Obviously, i agree that ACA was a failure in some areas (addressing costs, ensuring people kept their plans and doctors etc...) but if i compared pre-ACA vs post-ACA, i would argue post-ACA slightly better.

    The problem here is that the ACA was never really a democratic idea to begin with, it was a republican idea. It was republicans who first came up with a similar plan as ACA many years ago (Romney even put it in place in MA) but the minute Obama jumped on it, it became a democrat plan. Republicans many years ago came up with a plan very similar to ACA to counter democrats who wanted a single payer system. How ironic that what republicans today claim failed, was largely their creation to begin with. Man, we forget history quick!

    as far as giving GOP a chance, sure i would but the problem is they HAVE NO PLAN... What is their plan? REPEAL? so we go back to a system that was arguably worse than today? seriously? plus, it would chaotic to just repeal the legislation to begin with, millions would be dropped from coverage. I'm still waiting to hear their plan, remember, republicans once advocated something similar to ACA many years ago. This is all political games...
    Last edited by Mike12; Jan 04 2017 at 02:17 PM.

  7. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
    Only the UK, Sweden, Spain and Portugal have nationalized healthcare systems.

    The rest have single-payer systems.

    When you learn the difference, and when you come to the realization that it is the cost of medical care that drives the cost of health plan coverage, get back to us.
    when i say nationalized, i mean both - nationalized (socialized medicine) and single payer (socialized health insurance). They are indeed different but have one thing in common - who pays. Whether medical services themselves are private or not, isn't my issue.

    So let me rephrase - wonder why all major developed nations have a socialized medicine or single player systems? ask your self this question but you know the answer - IT'S MUCH MORE COST EFFECTIVE.

    There is a reason that US health care costs are A LOT higher than nationalized or single payer systems. So trying to bring costs down without moving so socialized medicine or socialized health care, is an unsolvable riddle.
    Last edited by Mike12; Jan 04 2017 at 02:26 PM.

  8. Likes BillRM liked this post
  9. #8

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    Mike...are there two people posting under this nic?

    We agree completely on this issue

  10. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lesh View Post
    Mike...are there two people posting under this nic?

    We agree completely on this issue
    why is it so shocking when you come across a true independent? sometimes i side with democrats, sometimes with republicans. This two party system has so engulfed this country that it seems inconceivable that someone doesn't have his head buried somewhere in far left or far right.

  11. #10
    Location: The Center of the Universe
    Posts: 586

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    Everyone needs and should be required to have catastrophic health insurance. Basic care should not be free unless you are disabled, poor, or elderly. Catastrophic care should just be funded through income tax, property tax, and possibly a national sales tax.
    Resistance is futile

  12. Likes lynnlynn liked this post
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