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Thread: Should mentally disturbed people be able to buy guns?

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    Quote Originally Posted by popopolitics View Post
    I am a gun owner myself.
    A claim that ultimately means nothing. Politicians seeking to further restrict firearms ownership claim to own firearms as well, in an effort to suggest that they are not the enemy.

    I should have noted that there are responsible gun owners of assault rifles, and people who enjoy firing them at gun ranges etc., but personally I don't see the purpose for an citizen to own an assault rifle unless you contemplate a group or militia attacking you or your property.
    First and foremost, the AR-15 is in no way a so-called assault rifle. It is nothing more than a semi-automatic firearm, largely no different from any other semi-automatic that has been freely available for the last one hundred years. Semi-automatic rifles were marketed towards hunters and sportsmen first, long before any military regarded them as a viable option.

    I know there's no way to win this argument but my opinion changed after Omar Mateen was able to purchase a rifle with an AR-15 style magazine that killed 49 people and wounded 53 others the Orlando Night Club massacre.
    In the city of Nice, in the nation of France, one person operating a motor vehicle managed to kill eighty six individuals, and injure another four hundred and thirty four individuals in a span of less than five minutes. No firearms were involved, only one motor vehicle. That is a significantly higher number of victims than any mass shooting in the united states, where firearms are indeed involved. This would suggest motor vehicles are far more dangerous than any firearm ever could be, since it would name multiple mass shootings to equal the same number of dead and injured.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scampi View Post
    Nice to see the gun nuts have emerged from the closet, squealing like cats when you tread on their tails. The 2nd amendment doesn’t ban the mentally ill from buying guns does it? True, but maybe the founding fathers were equipped with a modicum of common sense which trusted future generations to acknowledge the bloody obvious, but then they had never met any 21st century gun nuts had they?
    At the time of the ratification of the second amendment, the mentally disturbed were locked up in asylums, never to be released into society again, or otherwise outright killed.
    If one cannot have an argument without resorting to hyperbole, name calling, and emotional rhetoric, then they have lost the argument from their first post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by polski View Post
    Mr. Vman............I find many of your posts interesting & thought provoking. I enjoy your posts.
    So I have to ask......
    ...........................wha t exactly are you protecting with an AR-15? It is a very nice weapon but are you expecting a home invasion
    or a panzer division?
    While not the addressed member, the above question can still be addressed.

    First and foremost, a rifle of any configuration is insufficient when facing a tank, thus making the above hyperbole.

    Second, compared to other firearms on the private market, the AR-15 is among the best available for matters of home defense. Lightweight build, mild recoil, proven reliability, adequate magazine capacity, significant accuracy, simplicity of function, very easy to customize, and quality ammunition has been proven to penetrate less than handgun and shotgun rounds.

    If it were not suitable for use in the home environment, police officers would not utilize similar platforms when entering buildings.

    A 7.62 round could do a lot of damage to my neighbors.
    The above round is most common in rifles such as the AK-47, not the AR-15.

    So I have Smith & Wesson Governors.
    .410 Bird shot or XXX buck in one. Apc tailored rounds in the other.
    That way, I would just have to replace carpet & dry wall in case of a violent entry.
    And with a .410 round, one points in the general direction of the target and simply pulls the trigger.
    If you ever get the chance, you should fire one sometimes.
    Bird shot is inadequate for defensive purposes, to the point of being useless. Former vice president Dick Cheney shot the individual Harry Whittington in the face with a load of bird shot, but he did not die as a result.
    If one cannot have an argument without resorting to hyperbole, name calling, and emotional rhetoric, then they have lost the argument from their first post.

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  5. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenamnes View Post
    First and foremost, the AR-15 is in no way a so-called assault rifle.
    It's first and foremost an assault rifle.


    It is nothing more than a semi-automatic firearm, largely no different from any other semi-automatic that has been freely available for the last one hundred years.
    That is the modified, semi-automatic AR-15-style rifle that is marketed to the public. Pretty soon you'll be telling me a BAR isn't a fully automatic rifle.


    Semi-automatic rifles were marketed towards hunters and sportsmen first, long before any military regarded them as a viable option.
    The AR-15 was first a military weapon with selective-fire capability. It is a "relative" of the M16 and AK-47. It was developed after a more compact version of the AR-10 was requested. The publicly-available version lacks the selective-fire capability and is strictly semi- automatic and is correctly referred to as an AR-15-style rifle. It is popular because the .223 cartridge, when fired, packs a minor "kick" making rapid-firing possible with greater accuracy than some other semi-automatics that provide a greater kick (recoil).



    In the city of Nice, in the nation of France, one person operating a motor vehicle managed to kill eighty six individuals, and injure another four hundred and thirty four individuals in a span of less than five minutes. No firearms were involved, only one motor vehicle. That is a significantly higher number of victims than any mass shooting in the united states, where firearms are indeed involved. This would suggest motor vehicles are far more dangerous than any firearm ever could be, since it would name multiple mass shootings to equal the same number of dead and injured.
    Yes and mass quantities of people have been killed by other methods including bombs and poisons. Your point? Is it "ban all or ban none"?
    "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

  6. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenamnes View Post
    Bird shot is inadequate for defensive purposes, to the point of being useless. Former vice president Dick Cheney shot the individual Harry Whittington in the face with a load of bird shot, but he did not die as a result.
    You are correct. What I like about my weapon is the shot selection that a .410 round offers.
    If someone breaks into my home, bird shot is a good first round choice. There's 5 rounds left of mix & match.
    If I am unable to get a second round off, then you are correct.

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    Quote Originally Posted by polski View Post
    You are correct. What I like about my weapon is the shot selection that a .410 round offers.
    If someone breaks into my home, bird shot is a good first round choice. There's 5 rounds left of mix & match.
    If I am unable to get a second round off, then you are correct.
    Why would bird shot even be in the rotation to begin with? From a basic, legal standpoint it simply makes no sense. Warning shots are generally not legal to engage in, and the discharge of a firearm involves deadly force regardless of what ammunition if selected, or whether or not the person that is shot dies as a result.
    If one cannot have an argument without resorting to hyperbole, name calling, and emotional rhetoric, then they have lost the argument from their first post.

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    Which other natural rights do people with disease lose?
    A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep

    “Indeed, a major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it… gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.” - Milton Friedman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kode View Post
    It's first and foremost an assault rifle.
    Pray tell how so?

    That is the modified, semi-automatic AR-15-style rifle that is marketed to the public.
    And it is the only version that is available to the public, thus meaning it is not what is legally defined as being an assault rifle.

    Pretty soon you'll be telling me a BAR isn't a fully automatic rifle.
    The browning automatic rifle is not being discussed presently.

    The AR-15 was first a military weapon with selective-fire capability.
    Is that relevant? Prior to the AR-15 prototype, the united state military and various other military forces around the world had access to machine guns, both full and sub, that were fully automatic. Is the ability to switch between semi automatic and full automatic significant?

    It is a "relative" of the M16 and AK-47. It was developed after a more compact version of the AR-10 was requested. The publicly-available version lacks the selective-fire capability and is strictly semi- automatic and is correctly referred to as an AR-15-style rifle.
    Is this not largely a matter of semantics? The AR-15 prototype designation ceased existence once the platform was reclassified as the M16. The designation fell into disuse and irrelevancy, and could thus be applied to whatever firearm someone wished to apply it to.

    It is popular because the .223 cartridge, when fired, packs a minor "kick" making rapid-firing possible with greater accuracy than some other semi-automatics that provide a greater kick (recoil).
    Lack of significant recoil is but only one reason for the popularity of the AR-15 rifle. Today it is available in a great many caliber and configurations, including several modern calibers that are comparable to calibers that were utilized in the hunting of buffalo in the nineteenth century. Calibers such as the .458 SOCOM, .450 Bushmaster, and .50 Beowulf.

    Yes and mass quantities of people have been killed by other methods including bombs and poisons. Your point? Is it "ban all or ban none"?
    The point is to keep perspective on what is important. The implement utilized in murdering others is of less importance than the fact that lives were lost, because someone believed they were justified in killing others for reasons that only they understood.
    If one cannot have an argument without resorting to hyperbole, name calling, and emotional rhetoric, then they have lost the argument from their first post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kode View Post
    Yes and mass quantities of people have been killed by other methods including bombs and poisons. Your point? Is it "ban all or ban none"?
    I know this isn't directed at me, but: I personally feel that if one bans only guns but ignores other things that are also used to kill people, he is being logically inconsistent.

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  12. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fangbeer View Post
    Which other natural rights do people with disease lose?
    Their right to freedom. They can be held against their will

  13. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by polski View Post
    You are correct. What I like about my weapon is the shot selection that a .410 round offers.
    If someone breaks into my home, bird shot is a good first round choice. There's 5 rounds left of mix & match.
    If I am unable to get a second round off, then you are correct.
    Well, i think the governor is a fine HD weapon. Many people like the taurus judge, which is the same cartridge(s). IMO, there is no 'best' weapon.. some might be better in some circumstances, not in others. Too many variables to be dogmatic, but since when has that ever stopped anyone?

    Loaded with good defensive loads, the 410 is a formidable cartridge. It may not pack the punch of a 12 ga, but it has a lot more than a 9mm, & it has a bit of spread. Don't let anyone diss that firearm.. if you are familiar with it, & can handle it properly & safely, it will be the right tool for multiple situations. The 45colt shell is no slouch, either. I even modified my taurus judge to take 45acp, which i believe the governor does from the factory.. i just checked..yes, it does, with 6 shot moon clips. IMO, the governor is much better than the taurus 5 shot version.


    I've got this on order... mossberg shockwave. I think it will be a good HD firearm, & i have lots of them. But i'm primarily an aficionado shooter, not too worried about home invasions in small town Arizona.

    Passionate hatred can give meaning and purpose to an empty life. ~Eric Hoffer

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