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  #121 (permalink)  
Old 09-19-2008, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Spare View Post
So, that's the litmus test, right? Do not pass GO, do not collect $200 --

It has nothing to do with their performance, it has nothing to do with their suitability, it has nothing to do with whether or not they try to change the education system or not ...

Check the wrong box, and you're out ...... how about you just don't vote for them? Don't deny them the opportunity to serve, just don't vote for them. Wouldn't that seem to be the fair way?
Absolutely and it absolutely does affect their performance. For example, people who don't believe in evolution would not support research into the flu virus; we don't need to research it because it never changes, right? They would reject research in stem cell research, biological anthropological research, forensic research, genetic research. I don't want someone in office that would write these things off because they don't believe them legitimate studies.

I'd love it if it were that simple, unfortunately most of the US rejects it, so it isn't a major issue in elections.
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  #122 (permalink)  
Old 09-19-2008, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by i.beletesri View Post
I think the 'Magical line' that the Left doesn't Like (You Prejudicially call "Elite left"), is not just her strong religous beliefs but what implications they have for the country.

In fact the (the Real) "magic" you talk about is what has Woken the [Far/Right] as much or more than the Left!
Enlivening the McCain Morgue campaign. But reinforcinmg who he'll pick for other Jobs.
McCain/Ridge ie would be dying a slow death.

This election (as well as the last) is about the Supreme Court.

Abortion, Creationism in school, etc.

Beacuse of Palin's personal choices and previous record I think we can safely say where she stanbds on these.

The reason I think Obama will win is not just because of Bush's Atrocious record.. (Iraq comes out near the same I think)
but the Real Middle, Real Soccer Moms, don't want the Supreme Court to tell THEM they have to have a Down's syndrome baby!

It's about Justices, and the real Middle, (including the pre-pandering McCain of years ago), doesn't want Hocus Pocus creationism taught or abortions denied or heavily restricted.
I'm not sure that makes sense ... McCain has openly said that he will appoint judges that you worry about .... but you don't attack him. Palin is going to be the VP, but you attack her for exactly the same positions.

As for the "elite Left", that's not prejudicial ... that's an observation based on their performance on this, and other threads. Surely you agree that they have positioned themselves as the only qualified arbiters of the political scene, even to the point of banning some who disagree.
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Old 09-19-2008, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Spare View Post
Her track record put the lie to that ...

But, McCain supports the Republican platform, and he's a religious man. Why doesn't he bother you? Why haven't you attacked him?
It does but she is way over the line. Whay are you afraid that religion will be disregarded?
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  #124 (permalink)  
Old 09-19-2008, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by StarryStarrySkies View Post
Absolutely and it absolutely does affect their performance. For example, people who don't believe in evolution would not support research into the flu virus; we don't need to research it because it never changes, right? They would reject research in stem cell research, biological anthropological research, forensic research, genetic research. I don't want someone in office that would write these things off because they don't believe them legitimate studies.

I'd love it if it were that simple, unfortunately most of the US rejects it, so it isn't a major issue in elections.
So, we can put you down in the .... "I know better, so I should be able to determine who even gets to run for office, rather than let the people decide" column?

Can you, perhaps, show some concrete validation of your observation that they would reject all those? Aw, heck, I'll settle for just two ... thank you. But, I gotta tell you, I think you're going to have a hard time coming up with them.
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Old 09-19-2008, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Spare View Post
So, that's the litmus test, right? Do not pass GO, do not collect $200 --

It has nothing to do with their performance, it has nothing to do with their suitability, it has nothing to do with whether or not they try to change the education system or not ...
You think people's religious backgrounds has nothing to do with their suitability and performance? With respect, religion is a huge part of many people's lives and is probably one of the best gauges we have to identifying the opinions and predispositions of a person. While actual performance is more important when such reliable information is available, there is no reason religious backgrounds can't be a legitimate basis for consideration.

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Check the wrong box, and you're out ...... how about you just don't vote for them? Don't deny them the opportunity to serve, just don't vote for them. Wouldn't that seem to be the fair way?
This is where I agree with you. There should be no automatic disqualifiers of this sort. People may take whatever considerations they deem important enough to them in casting their vote, but denying someone from even being on the ballot requires a much higher standard than one's religious and rational disposition.
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Old 09-19-2008, 01:48 PM
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You think people's religious backgrounds has nothing to do with their suitability and performance? With respect, religion is a huge part of many people's lives and is probably one of the best gauges we have to identifying the opinions and predispositions of a person. While actual performance is more important when such reliable information is available, there is no reason religious backgrounds can't be a legitimate basis for consideration.



This is where I agree with you. There should be no automatic disqualifiers of this sort. People may take whatever considerations they deem important enough to them in casting their vote, but denying someone from even being on the ballot requires a much higher standard than one's religious and rational disposition.
I absolutely agree that a person's faith is a fairly reliable indicator of the person's moral values, and should be actively considered. But, to disqualify someone solely because of that is prejudicial, particularly when given a definable track record (there's that good ol' 'executive experience' thing!), that demonstrates that their political decisions are not being influenced by their faith.
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Old 09-19-2008, 01:49 PM
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can you show us a single time when Ms. Palin allowed her opinion of these issues to influence her political decisions?
Why am I suddenly reminded of the movie, "Ground Hog's Day"?

As a GOVENOR, she doesn't vote for legislation, does she?

I believe that her stances on all the various topics are common clearly show that her beliefs influence her political decisions. Here is one example of how she'll use her political influence to make "changes"

Q: Your stand on abortion?
A: I'm pro-life. I'll do all I can to see every baby is created with a future and potential. The legislature should do all it can to protect human life.

Source: Q&A with Newsmax.com's Mike Coppock Aug 29, 2008
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  #128 (permalink)  
Old 09-19-2008, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Spare View Post
So, we can put you down in the .... "I know better, so I should be able to determine who even gets to run for office, rather than let the people decide" column?

Can you, perhaps, show some concrete validation of your observation that they would reject all those? Aw, heck, I'll settle for just two ... thank you. But, I gotta tell you, I think you're going to have a hard time coming up with them.
I'm not saying that I know better, I'm saying that those who accept scientific findings know better. These people can consist of religious and non religious.

All of those areas of study are completely dependent on the fact that evolution has been directly observed.
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Old 09-19-2008, 01:51 PM
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Three months before she was thrust into the national political spotlight, Gov. Sarah Palin was asked to handle a much smaller task: addressing the graduating class of commission students at her one-time church, Wasilla Assembly of God.

Her speech in June provides as much insight into her policy leanings as anything uncovered since she was asked to be John McCain's running mate.

Speaking before the Pentecostal church, Palin painted the current war in Iraq as a messianic affair in which the United States could act out the will of the Lord.

"Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending [U.S. soldiers] out on a task that is from God," she exhorted the congregants. "That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan."

Religion, however, was not strictly a thread in Palin's foreign policy. It was part of her energy proposals as well. Just prior to discussing Iraq, Alaska's governor asked the audience to pray for another matter -- a $30 billion national gas pipeline project that she wanted built in the state. "I think God's will has to be done in unifying people and companies to get that gas line built, so pray for that," she said.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0..._n_123205.html

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Old 09-19-2008, 01:53 PM
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It's not prejudice, I just don't want someone who denies science dictating the rules under which I must live. I have no problem with religiosity at all. Many many scientists are religious. The two aren't mutually exclusive but denying evolution and allowing federal funding in the area of genetics seems to be.
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