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Without valuing the individual, there can be no sense to democracy... It is the argument for democracy. Modern democracy and its emphasis on aggregates is the result of an evergrowing and ever more complex society. The strategy of "pluralism" was developed as a way for weaker individuals to band together against the strongest special interests. Numbers can beat money and entrenchment... and this can only happen because each one in those numbers counts as an individual and their count as an individual trumps money and entrenchment (ideally anyway).
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That information is classified and to be given only on a need-to-know basis... And I do not need to know. |
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You are correct in your statement that I speak of government in it's most flattering light. I speak of it based upon the ideals upon with America was founded and we have travelled a long ways from those ideals. That does not diminish the fact that if government was solely dedicated to the protection of the rights and liberties of the People, as expressed in the Declaration of Independence, that it would be far superior to any religious teachings. In a comparison of the ideals of government to the ideals of religion then government wins hands down.
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Soldiers swear to protect and defend the Constitution with their lives. Politicians swear to protect and defend the Constitution with someone else's life. |
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What? The pipe-dreams of anarchy?
It would require a centralized state to keep each community from doing wrong to the other. In small collectives (the only units in which non-state societies could function), morality tends to be held to a different standard between in-group and out-group (as it does in larger systems, but bureaucracy minimizes that by using laws and coercion where socilalization fails). Given one conflict over resources, peace would vanish without an arbitrating authority.
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That information is classified and to be given only on a need-to-know basis... And I do not need to know. |
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Name a single religion that doesn't dictate it's own rules for behavior of the individual.
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I will give you an example. In the United States religious institutions have established "marriage" as being limited to two people, generally a man and a woman. This is the government imposing a religious limitiation upon the personal relationships of consenting adults and you could have a marriage of three, four, or more consenting adults. The fact that these relationships are banned is due to the bigoted beliefs of religion imposing itself upon the political process.
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Soldiers swear to protect and defend the Constitution with their lives. Politicians swear to protect and defend the Constitution with someone else's life. |
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Good question. To be honest, I put a lot of serious thought into my political beliefs, but that process started nearly 20 years ago! Danged if I can remember my take on that, or even if that had been a question I had confronted. You have given me something to ponder. Thank you, BTeamBomber!
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Marthascrewit Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." Matthew 19:21 |
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Last edited by Rothbardian; 09-22-2008 at 06:57 AM. |
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I would agree, however, that government has replaced religion in this arena; nevertheless, that is its origin. In any case, I don't believe that religion is, by its nature, enslaving of its followers. I would say, though, that most people are perfectly happy to let themselves be enslaved. I don't think the flawless government you discuss exists. Neither does a flawless religion. However, do you think there might be a difference between abstract religion (as in a belief structure) and concrete religion (as in a church)? You speak as one who has never found faith to be freeing. Is this the case, or am I wrong? If it is the case, then how can you tell, from your own experience, if religion is always limiting? I would propose many of the limits imposed by religion (generally) are the same ones that are imposed by government (generally)--no murder, perjury, stealing--you get the idea. But is every limit truly a limit, or do we give up some things, whether through religion or law, in order to maintain a civilized society? Btw, let me be clear about one thing: I am NOT advocating theocracy. P.S. I would like to do a thorough study of the Declaration of Independence and follow up more with you on that in detail; however, I haven't slept in more than 24 hours. Perhaps I will be able to return to this later. Thank you, Shiva, for the excellent discussion.
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Marthascrewit Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." Matthew 19:21 |
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