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View Poll Results: Does 'trickle down' economics work?
Yes 25 26.60%
No 51 54.26%
Sometimes 18 19.15%
Voters: 94. You may not vote on this poll

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  #191 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2008, 10:16 PM
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"Trickle Down" economics was a "Trojan Horse"

In the 1980’s Ronald Reagan ushered in a new era in American economics as he cut the top tax bracket from 70% down to 50% and then down again to 28%. In order to get support for doing this from the people, and also from politicians, a very crafty set of lies were produced. As David Stockman, then Reagan’s budget director, put it: giving small tax cuts across the board to all brackets was simply a “Trojan Horse” that was used to get approval for the huge top tax bracket cuts. “Trickle-Down” was a term used by Republicans that meant giving tax cuts to the rich. Stockman explains that:

"It's kind of hard to sell 'trickle down,' so the supply-side formula was the only way to get a tax policy that was really 'trickle down.' Supply-side is 'trickle-down' theory."

"Yes, Stockman conceded, when one stripped away the new rhetoric emphasizing across-the-board cuts, the supply-side theory was really new clothes for the unpopular doctrine of the old Republican orthodoxy."

"…the Reagan coalition prevailed again in the House and Congress passed the tax-cut legislation with a final frenzy of trading and bargaining. Again, Stockman was not exhilarated by the victory. On the contrary, it seemed to leave a bad taste in his mouth, as though the democratic process had finally succeeded in shocking him by its intensity and its greed. Once again, Stockman participated in the trading -- special tax concessions for oil -- lease holders and real-estate tax shelters, and generous loopholes that virtually eliminated the corporate income tax. Stockman sat in the room and saw it happen."

"'Do you realize the greed that came to the forefront?' Stockman asked with wonder. 'The hogs were really feeding. The greed level, the level of opportunism, just got out of control.'"

http://rationalrevolution0.tripod.co...ickle_down.htm
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  #192 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2008, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frolicking Dinosaurs View Post
I was around during the Reagan years and they were not good for the poor. Jobs were hard to find and poverty rose in this country. The federal government did not give as much back to states to help with education, health care and infrastructure development as it had in the past and state taxes and property taxes rose considerable in the period.

Reaganomics, Supply side economics or trickle down economics - I don't care what you call it, I call it a resounding failure.
My dad went from making about 250 a week to the general manager of a car dealership during the Regan Years... why because more jobs were created.

However, it IS NOT the job of the government to provide health care... it is the responsibility of the person seeking health care to pay for it themselves.
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  #193 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2008, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Talo76 View Post
Taxes are good, taxes are for the public good, the public wealth, everyone agrees taxes are a great thing for building a nation, capital works, infrastructure etc. It's only the libertarian kooks and weirdos who don't like taxation, the rest of us are fine paying it.
Call me a kook if you want to... but he's right, those are better ways to do it. MY INCOME IS MY INCOME. YOU did nothing to earn my income, NOTHING. Those thousands of people on welfare don't need to be sitting on their butts doing nothing. They need to be finding a J-O-B. Do you realize if there were a federal sales tax and no income tax. I would be able to keep more of my own money to spend on things that i want/need and the government would still get a share? I would be able to take care of MY OWN family without worrying about whether we could make the rent. Nothing infuriates me more than seeing these welfare people sitting on their butts drinking 40s and knowing that it is MY money my father's money, my grandfather's money that allowed them to have those things... NO ONE IS ENTITLED TO WEALTH... you have to work for it... but the harder you work the harder youre taxed... it's sick. It is nothing more than legalized ROBBERY!!
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  #194 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2008, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by _-Juris-_ View Post
That's because the government has been hijacked by the corporations. You fix that little "issue" by making the corporations pay a tax on their profits instead of their product (like everyone else is taxed). And if they jack the prices up to compensate so they themselves don't have to pay but instead the consumer, you pull their licenses, problem solved.

Look, the government can either grow a pair and learn to stand up to these scum, or they can face a revolt, because it's coming. People are starving. They can't afford to drive to work, feed their kids, or go to school. This whole thing is about to get very ugly.
maybe that's because the government is taking too much out of their paychecks in taxes... hmmm interesting.

the government has FAR to much power... lets get back to the constitution.
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  #195 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2008, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Carrie3102 View Post
Call me a kook if you want to...

Don't tempt me.

MY INCOME IS MY INCOME.

If you live in this country, it is your duty to pay your fair share of taxes.

Those thousands of people on welfare don't need to be sitting on their butts doing nothing. They need to be finding a J-O-B. Do you realize if there were a federal sales tax and no income tax. I would be able to keep more of my own money to spend on things that i want/need and the government would still get a share? I would be able to take care of MY OWN family without worrying about whether we could make the rent. Nothing infuriates me more than seeing these welfare people sitting on their butts drinking 40s and knowing that it is MY money my father's money, my grandfather's money that allowed them to have those things... NO ONE IS ENTITLED TO WEALTH... you have to work for it... but the harder you work the harder youre taxed... it's sick. It is nothing more than legalized ROBBERY!!
The reason there is a progressive tax system is that 10% of the population owns 80% of the wealth. If you do not wish to pay your fair share of taxes, give your wealth away, and live the high life you claim the poor are living.
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  #196 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2008, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinate812 View Post
Let's try arguing the results instead of the theory for a change...
You apparently want to argue party politics instead of policy.
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  #197 (permalink)  
Old 10-18-2008, 01:28 PM
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I've really been thinking about what happens when you have such a low tax rate on the obscenely rich, along with giving them ways to create tax shelters, write offs, etc...

The rich fat cats forgot one thing when they managed to convince that the Repubs really cared about the middle and lower classes.

The middle and lower classes outnumber them, and when the lower end of the income scales feel pinched, but they see reports that the top 1% of Americans saw healthy income increases, while they have trouble making ends meet, then the other shoe will drop, and the group seen as at fault for what has taken place will feel their wrath.

The simple truth is, since Reagan started this silliness, wages have stagnated for the majority of americans, the top of the spectrum have seen unparalleled income growth, health care has been harder and harder to come by, college costs keep going up, and their kids are starting to see the reality of the bush job creation, that it's "Do you want fries with that?"

No, I think the concept of Trickle down has been patently debunked, but there's more than tax brackets and rates that have hurt americans, there is also so called free trade, defanging the unions, constant calls to privatize everything etc...

The other shoe has fallen.
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  #198 (permalink)  
Old 10-18-2008, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Fox View Post
You apparently want to argue party politics instead of policy.
What, no comment on the actual historical statistics? What's the matter, don't they support your arguments?
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  #199 (permalink)  
Old 10-18-2008, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trumanp View Post
I've really been thinking about what happens when you have such a low tax rate on the obscenely rich, along with giving them ways to create tax shelters, write offs, etc...

The rich fat cats forgot one thing when they managed to convince that the Repubs really cared about the middle and lower classes.

The middle and lower classes outnumber them, and when the lower end of the income scales feel pinched, but they see reports that the top 1% of Americans saw healthy income increases, while they have trouble making ends meet, then the other shoe will drop, and the group seen as at fault for what has taken place will feel their wrath.

The simple truth is, since Reagan started this silliness, wages have stagnated for the majority of americans, the top of the spectrum have seen unparalleled income growth, health care has been harder and harder to come by, college costs keep going up, and their kids are starting to see the reality of the bush job creation, that it's "Do you want fries with that?"

No, I think the concept of Trickle down has been patently debunked, but there's more than tax brackets and rates that have hurt americans, there is also so called free trade, defanging the unions, constant calls to privatize everything etc...

The other shoe has fallen.

Exactly right Truman! And that giant shoe fell on 80% of the taxpayers who only own 10% of the wealth now. It would seem the financial pain level has finally overcome the trailer park Republican syndrome, as we call it here in Virginia, where lower income Republicans vote against their best economic interests due to the fear and smear tactics employed.

You are also right the 10% of the rich have forgotten that while they own 80% of the wealth, the rest of us own 90% of the vote!
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Old 10-18-2008, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Carrie3102 View Post
Call me a kook if you want to... but he's right, those are better ways to do it. MY INCOME IS MY INCOME. YOU did nothing to earn my income, NOTHING. Those thousands of people on welfare don't need to be sitting on their butts doing nothing. They need to be finding a J-O-B. Do you realize if there were a federal sales tax and no income tax. I would be able to keep more of my own money to spend on things that i want/need and the government would still get a share? I would be able to take care of MY OWN family without worrying about whether we could make the rent. Nothing infuriates me more than seeing these welfare people sitting on their butts drinking 40s and knowing that it is MY money my father's money, my grandfather's money that allowed them to have those things... NO ONE IS ENTITLED TO WEALTH... you have to work for it... but the harder you work the harder youre taxed... it's sick. It is nothing more than legalized ROBBERY!!
You're a kook.
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