A friend of mine sent this to me as the topic suggests this a bi partisan issue. Lets talk about the issues, pick this thing apart or support and discuss why. But please, let keep the partisan mud slinging out of this thread, Immigration is important to all Americans. The point of this thread is to discuss different views on this issue and try to better understand how best to deal with it going forward.

Tomatoes and Cheap Labor

CHEAP TOMATOES?

This should make everyone think, be you Democrat, Republican or Independent



From a California school teacher.

As you listen to the news about the student protests over illegal immigration, there are some things that you should be aware of:

I am in charge of the English-as-a-second-language department at a large southern

California high school which is designated a Title 1 school, meaning that its students average lower socioeconomic and income levels


Most of the schools you are hearing about, South Gate High, Bell Gardens , Huntington Park , etc., where these students are protesting, are also Title 1 schools.

Title 1 schools are on the free breakfast and free lunch program. When I say free breakfast, I'm not talking a glass of milk and roll -- but a full breakfast and cereal bar with fruits and juices that would make a Marriott proud. The waste of this food is monumental, with trays and trays of it being dumped in the trash uneaten. (OUR TAX DOLLARS ATWORK)

I estimate that well over 50% of these students are obese or at least moderately overweight. About 75% or more DO have cell phones. The school also provides day care centers for the unwed teenage pregnant girls (some as young as 13) so they can attend class without the inconvenience of having to arrange for babysitters or having family watch their kids. (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)

I was ordered to spend $700,000 on my department or risk losing funding for the upcoming year even though there was little need for anything; my budget was already substantial. I ended up buying new computers for the computer learning center, half of which, one month later, have been carved with graffiti by the appreciative students who obviously feel humbled and grateful to have a free education in America . (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)

I have had to intervene several times for young and substitute teachers whose classes consist of many illegal immigrant students here in the country less then 3 months who raised so much hell with the female teachers, calling them 'Putas' (whores) and throwing things, that the teachers were in tears.

Free medical, free education, free food, day care, etc., etc, etc. Is it any wonder they feel entitled to not only be in this country but to demand rights, privileges and entitlements?

To those who want to point out how much these illegal immigrants contribute to our society because they LIKE their gardener and housekeeper and they like to pay less for tomatoes: spend some time in the real world of illegal immigration and see the TRUE costs.

Higher insurance, medical facilities closing, higher medical costs, more crime, lower standards of education in our schools, overcrowding, new diseases etc., etc, etc. For me, I'll pay more for tomatoes.

Americans, We need to wake up. The guest worker program will be a disaster because we won't have the guts to enforce it. Does anyone in their right mind really think they will voluntarily leave and return?

It does, however, have everything to do with culture: A third-world culture that does not value education, that accepts children getting pregnant and dropping out of school by 15 and that refuses to assimilate, and an American culture that has become so weak and worried about ' political correctness' that we don't have the will to do anything about it.

If this makes your blood boil, as it did mine, forward this to everyone you know.

CHEAP LABOR? Isn't that what the whole immigration issue is about?

Business doesn't want to pay a decent wage.

Consumers don't want expensive produce.

Government will tell yo u Americans don't want the jobs.

But the bottom line is cheap labor. The phrase 'cheap labor' is a myth, a farce, and a lie. There is no such thing as 'cheap labor.' Take, for example, an illegal alien with a wife and five children. He takes a job for $5.00 or 6.00/hour. At that wage, with six dependents, he pays no income tax, yet at the end of the year, if he files an Income Tax Return, he gets an 'earned income credit' of up to $3,200 free.

He qualifies for Section 8 housing and subsidized rent.

He qualifies for food stamps.

He qualifies for free (no deductible, no co-pay) health care.
His children get free breakfasts and lunches at school.

He requires bilingual teachers and books.
He qualifies for relief from high energy bills.

If they are or become, aged, blind or disabled, they qualify for SSI. Once qualified for SSI they can qualify forMedicare. All of this is at (our) taxpayer's expense .

He doesn't worry about car insurance, life insurance, or homeowners insurance.

Taxpayers provide Spanish language signs, bulletins and printed material.

He and his family receive the equivalent of $20.00 to $30.00/hour in benefits.

Working Americans are lucky to have $5.00 or $6.00/hour left after paying their bills and his.

The American taxpayers also pay for increased crime, graffiti and trash clean-up.

Cheap labor? YEAH RIGHT! Wake up people!

THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS WE SHOULD BE ADDRESSING TO THE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES FOR EITHER PARTY. 'AND WHEN THEY LIE TO US AND DON'T DO AS THEY SAY, WE SHOULD REPLACE THEM AT ONCE!'


I will start. Personally I find a number of very valid issues in here but the letter in its entirety could also contain some racial undertones. Based on how the kids treat those teachers its not a stretch to imagine some of this as being racists and biased.

One glaring thing that concerns me is the sheer amount of waste I see going on here. From the wasted food, to being forced to spend money they don't really need to spend in order to maintain there budget for the next fiscal year. To say noting of the money we spend yearly in different sectors on illegal immigrants whether it he health care, crime etc.

Lets get some opinions on this I am curious to see if other people see these issues that I have seen as well as the issues of the Teacher who wrote this letter.

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The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - Patrick Henry

Good post. I will have to get back to it later. Real busy .

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“Share everything with your brother. Do not say, ‘It is private property.’ If you share what is everlasting, you should be that much more willing to share things which do not last.”
~ The Didache

"Not to enable the poor to share in our goods is to steal from them and deprive them of life. The goods we possess are not ours, but theirs."
~St. John Chrysostom

No problem friend. I am just curious to share views with others, Immigration is a big deal to me.

__________________
The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - Patrick Henry

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"I want to stay as close to the edge as I can without going over. Out on the edge you see all kinds of things you can't see from the center." - Kurt Vonnegut

I agree with this entirely I often wondered if stricter laws would have an effect on this issue. As you say until we hold the companies employing the illegal workers accountable nothing will change.

I would recommend, new laws being passed requiring stricter checks on employee background as well as work eligibility. If the employers break those laws maybe have a tiered penalty system in place. infraction 1: A fine is imposed on the company, infraction 2 Company will lose tax credits for the following year. Infraction 3 All of the above but a suspension of the company's business license. Infraction 4, company loses business license all together.

There are just my thoughts mind you. As far as whether or not this is factual I like you am not sure. But it brought up a good point for debate and discussion to a very real problem in America today.

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The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - Patrick Henry

Come on, I shouldn't have to break that down. That's a total propaganda email, lies galore. It's set up in such a way that it's a total argument from authority with no citations and no evidence (other than some dubious "first hand knowledge") given at all for his claims.

I can of course tell you that it's basically lies from top to bottom, but then to refute those absurd claims with citations and evidence would require a lot of work.

That's the game. Throw out outrageous claims that require lots of work to properly debunk with acceptable citations of the laws and realities of various states.

Just trash that as the propaganda it is.

For me,
I just hate the fact that American companies break American laws, and knowingly hire illegal immigrants and threaten to call immigration whenever they ask for equal pay etc.

I also hate the fact that my city (San Antonio), is so embedded with illegal immigrants, that if we were to deport every single one of them, our city's economy would destroy itself. (There has been research done.)

I am completely against illegal immigration, as i've come from Spain to the united states and it took me 3 months to get a visa and 5 years after that to get citizenship. (i was living under residency, which is legal by the way)

If Mexicans would take 4 months to get a green card, all of OUR trouble with this issue would be gone, but instead, they take the easy way out and just hop the border. Human laziness at it's finest.

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Beliefs - Marxism, Altruism and Social Darwinism

I think we need to focus on boarder security. To me that IS a bipartisan issue. No one will question whether we need a secure border or not. We obviously do. So why don't we work together to secure the border? Because Republicans and democrats are too caught up on what to do with the illegal immigrants already here. I don't see how it is a major issue, and honestly it definitely has major racist undertones. Why do conservatives care if people came here illegally, and get to stay? I know they say, because they broke the law. But that is not a legitimate reason. So to me, we should pass a comprehensive bill that will make our borders secure, and worry about the illegal immigrants who are already here later.

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R.I.P. Molly, I miss you every day!!

Im a Tarte, what! you want some of this?


And what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. Thomas Jefferson

I respect your point and I stated I do not know how much of this is factual or not. None the less illegal immigration is an issue in America and in this election. I figured it deserved discussion, so if you prefer skip the suspect letter and talk about the issues you see and how we can fix it.

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The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - Patrick Henry

I see "illegal immigration" as being a red herring and I don't consider it a problem.

My main concern is in making sure no human beings are exploited, regardless of nationality.