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Old 09-22-2008, 04:22 AM
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Default Freedom, corporations and gays..

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Originally Posted by dittbub View Post
just curious, you are be a supporter of gay marriage then??
Yes.

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and its not true what you say. those at the top have much more economic freedoms, from birth. (almost a birth right?)

its not enough to just work hard. as my dad once said, "no man got rich from working".
Granted well off kids do have more chances to stay well off in their adult lives. But that doesn't mean that all the other children don't. The majority of the rich in the country have got their through hard work not inheritance. All children go to school and have the opportunity to surpass their parents income wise. Granted for some kids its harder but education is where im a friggen commie.

And no offense but your dad was either content with whatever he did or just a quitter..

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Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
That's patently untrue. Wage slavery still shackles the vast majority of the working class in America, and throughout the Western world...
Im sorry but there time just isn't worth all that much. Whatever there doing for a living theres either no demand or miles of other people who want that job. If these people arn't happy where they are then they need to make some tough decisions to get themselves out. (You also need look at what these people did to get where they are)
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Old 09-22-2008, 04:38 AM
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Originally Posted by TheChief View Post
Im sorry but there time just isn't worth all that much. Whatever there doing for a living theres either no demand or miles of other people who want that job. If these people arn't happy where they are then they need to make some tough decisions to get themselves out. (You also need look at what these people did to get where they are)
Do you honestly imagine that the poor economic circumstances of the working class stem from their own personal decisions?
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Old 09-22-2008, 04:43 AM
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The funny thing is, the only alternative to the socialists misguided notion of "wage slavery" is to force "the greedy capitalist pigs" to pay the "exploited workers" more.

Now, you tell me, which sounds more like genuine slavery? Voluntary agreements or decisions imposed on some by violence.
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Old 09-22-2008, 04:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Rothbardian View Post
The funny thing is, the only alternative to the socialists misguided notion of "wage slavery" is to force "the greedy capitalist pigs" to pay the "exploited workers" more.

Now, you tell me, which sounds more like genuine slavery? Voluntary agreements or decisions imposed on some by violence.
I'd say the latter. Which is where my opposition to capitalism stems from.
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Old 09-22-2008, 04:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
I'd say the latter. Which is where my opposition to capitalism stems from.
In which case you shouldn't be in opposition to a genuine free market. I agree with you, the current state of affairs (which some like to capitalism, hence my aversion to the term) is wrong, but I properly identify the culprit.
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Old 09-22-2008, 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Rothbardian View Post
In which case you shouldn't be in opposition to a genuine free market. I agree with you, the current state of affairs (which some like to capitalism, hence my aversion to the term) is wrong, but I properly identify the culprit.
I've told you before that there's no point in arguing over the ideological meaning of a "free market" because it is not a conceptually sound idea. I have asked you for instances of existing "free markets" in the world. You were unable to provide any. In the name of fairness, I then provided you with several examples of libertarian socialist societies. You mocked one without addressing its conceptual soundness, but did not post any reply about the rest, even when I prompted you to do so.
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Old 09-22-2008, 05:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
I'd say the latter. Which is where my opposition to capitalism stems from.
In which case you shouldn't be in opposition to a genuine free market. I agree with you, the current state of affairs (which some like to capitalism, hence my aversion to the term) is wrong, but I properly identify the culprit.
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Old 09-22-2008, 05:05 AM
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Am I missing something?
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Old 09-22-2008, 05:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
I've told you before that there's no point in arguing over the ideological meaning of a "free market" because it is not a conceptually sound idea. I have asked you for instances of existing "free markets" in the world. You were unable to provide any. In the name of fairness, I then provided you with several examples of libertarian socialist societies. You mocked one without addressing its conceptual soundness, but did not post any reply about the rest, even when I prompted you to do so.
That's a logical fallacy, the past is descriptive, not prescriptive.

100 years ago the internet didn't exist, does that make it an impossibility?

In any case, even if free market anarchism could never be put into practise (which isn't true, it can) it still doesn't mean it isn't the correct position to advocate.

Moreover, there have been examples of free market societies, medievil Iceland, medievil Ireland, the Wild West other places in the USA. The Spanish anarhcism rested on coercion and as such wasn't anarchism. The rest? I'll admit, I'm clueless about them.
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Old 09-22-2008, 05:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Rothbardian View Post
That's a logical fallacy, the past is descriptive, not prescriptive.

100 years ago the internet didn't exist, does that make it an impossibility?

In any case, even if free market anarchism could never be put into practise (which isn't true, it can) it still doesn't mean it isn't the correct position to advocate.

Moreover, there have been examples of free market societies, medievil Iceland, medievil Ireland, the Wild West other places in the USA. The Spanish anarhcism rested on coercion and as such wasn't anarchism. The rest? I'll admit, I'm clueless about them.
That again? I find it interesting that you would cite medieval Iceland and the Wild West when I've already rebutted those examples before, and when you say that "the past is descriptive, not prescriptive."

Spanish anarchism, on the other hand, has functioned well in an industrialized urban setting. It's not that you're clueless about the rest. You're clueless about Spanish anarchism. Were you the one who posted the Bryan Caplan link?
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