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View Poll Results: Do you save the human baby or the adult chimp?
The human baby. 36 87.80%
The adult chimp. 5 12.20%
Voters: 41. You may not vote on this poll

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2008, 03:57 AM
J.Anderson J.Anderson is offline
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Evolutionary history is wrought with competition. An individual has more to gain, and in more need of that gain, to save one of its kin. This has been more typical in the development of our genome than in the uber altruism of the new modern era.
Massive over-simplification. Altruism is found all over the animal kingdom, and is a product of natural selection like anything else.
John Maynard Smith in particular has some excellent work on this subject.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2008, 03:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
It theoretically could be.

And what logical justification lies behind that belief?
A person doesn't need 'logical justification' nor is it a 'belief'. It would be normal behavior for most.
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Old 09-24-2008, 03:59 AM
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Wow, I'd like to see that especially if you have 'bear' hands. LOL

BARE
I thought that was supposed to be some kind of stupid pun.
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Old 09-24-2008, 03:59 AM
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Originally Posted by J.Anderson View Post
Massive over-simplification. Altruism is found all over the animal kingdom, and is a product of natural selection like anything else.
John Maynard Smith in particular has some excellent work on this subject.
And why would you save the adult chimp?
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Old 09-24-2008, 04:01 AM
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Because the other 8 people are going for the baby, someone has to save the poor chimp.
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Old 09-24-2008, 04:06 AM
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Originally Posted by J.Anderson View Post
Massive over-simplification. Altruism is found all over the animal kingdom, and is a product of natural selection like anything else.
John Maynard Smith in particular has some excellent work on this subject.
oh i know this. but altruism for other species is rare. minus symbiotic relationships.

that is, don't expect much of the animal kingdom to come to the babies aid, even if they didn't have their own specie to choose from.
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Old 09-24-2008, 04:07 AM
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Honestly speaking, and I avoid speciesism, I would save the baby. The death of the baby would cause a great deal of human suffering, which is deeper in many profound ways than that experienced by other animals. So in the interest of choosing the action that would cause the least suffering, I would save the baby.
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Old 09-24-2008, 04:08 AM
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Yes, that is an extremely important point to note.
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Old 09-24-2008, 04:10 AM
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that is, don't expect much of the animal kingdom to come to the babies aid
There are lots of examples of outer-species altruism. Dogs, for example, have been known to put themselves at risk to save humans quite often.

Darwin himself has many such stories in "Descent of Man", including several examples of chimps defending humans from other (even larger) chimps.

You can say that it's not common, but that's by no means certain, and the reality is that an animal is more likely to defend a member of another species that it has an established friendly relationship with than a member of it's own species that is hostile.

So a strong case can (and has) been made that species plays less of a part in altruistic behavior than does familiarity and friendship between the two animals.

Last edited by J.Anderson; 09-24-2008 at 04:11 AM.
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Old 09-24-2008, 04:11 AM
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We see this with human beings also. Humans will defend their pets against strangers of their own species who attempt to harm the animal.
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