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View Poll Results: Which economic system destroys liberty?
Capitalism 6 27.27%
Socialism 16 72.73%
Voters: 22. You may not vote on this poll

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 09-25-2008, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilguy View Post
Under socialism... Every aspect of your life would be regulated and controlled by the government through a policing force.

Liberty is being free from restriction or control... so socialism is anti-liberty
That is not a reality of libertarian socialism.
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ANARCHISM, the name given to a principle or theory of life and conduct under which society is conceived without government — harmony in such a society being obtained, not by submission to law, or by obedience to any authority, but by free agreements concluded between the various groups, territorial and professional, freely constituted for the sake of production and consumption, as also for the satisfaction of the infinite variety of needs and aspirations of a civilized being.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 09-25-2008, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
By definition, capitalism "destroys" (accurate, definitely) liberty because its focus is on hierarchy and profit maximization rather than the social benefits and freedoms of the working class.
Capitalism does not focus on hierarchy. Hierarchy is just a natural outgrowth of the ability of some to do better than others. Capitalism is focused on accumulating wealth and product as much and as best as one possibly can. It does not prescribe the method one should employ to attain their goal. The idea of class in a capitalist system is nebulous because they are not maintained by some social authority or social order, but rather by an aggregation of the decisions of the people themselves. Nobody is inherently better than another, and there is ultimate freedom of social movement.
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My enduring personal, original quote: Many mistake what should rightly be called "passivism" for pacifism. Pacifism and passivism are COMPLETELY different.
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Originally Posted by The12thMan View Post
The rule should never trump the reason for the rule.
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Everything about the War on Terror(ism) is aggravating.
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Old 09-25-2008, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
That is not a reality of libertarian socialism.
Libertarian socialism is a fantasy in actual countries or large cities. The reality of socialism is that some force has to be there to heavily redistribute incentive and social "equality."
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My enduring personal, original quote: Many mistake what should rightly be called "passivism" for pacifism. Pacifism and passivism are COMPLETELY different.
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"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully." --President George W. Bush.
-----------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by The12thMan View Post
The rule should never trump the reason for the rule.
-----------------
Everything about the War on Terror(ism) is aggravating.

Last edited by SpankyTheWhale; 09-25-2008 at 06:08 PM.
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Old 09-25-2008, 06:16 PM
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It looks like socialism has taken the lead against freedom.

Socialism constricts while capitalism allows freedom of movement.
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Old 09-25-2008, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by SpankyTheWhale View Post
Libertarian socialism is a fantasy in actual countries or large cities. The reality of socialism is that some force has to be there to heavily redistribute incentive and social "equality."
Libertarian socialism was implemented in anarchist Spain amongst more than one million urban workers.
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ANARCHISM, the name given to a principle or theory of life and conduct under which society is conceived without government — harmony in such a society being obtained, not by submission to law, or by obedience to any authority, but by free agreements concluded between the various groups, territorial and professional, freely constituted for the sake of production and consumption, as also for the satisfaction of the infinite variety of needs and aspirations of a civilized being.
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Old 09-25-2008, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
Libertarian socialism was implemented in anarchist Spain amongst more than one million urban workers.
Provide a source to my ignorance.
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My enduring personal, original quote: Many mistake what should rightly be called "passivism" for pacifism. Pacifism and passivism are COMPLETELY different.
-----------------
"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully." --President George W. Bush.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The12thMan View Post
The rule should never trump the reason for the rule.
-----------------
Everything about the War on Terror(ism) is aggravating.
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Old 09-25-2008, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
That is not a reality of libertarian socialism.
oxymoron.

No such thing
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Old 09-25-2008, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
That is not a reality of libertarian socialism.
Libertarian socialism?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism

That is some scary stuff!
"Political philosophies commonly described as libertarian socialist include most varieties of anarchism (especially anarchist communism, anarchist collectivism, anarcho-syndicalism, some forms of mutualism, some forms of individualist anarchism, social ecology, Autonomism and council communism). Some writers use libertarian socialism synonymously with anarchism."
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Old 09-25-2008, 09:09 PM
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There is a difference between civil liberty, which is determined by the government and economic liberty which is controlled by the economic system.

You can have a capitalist society with little civil liberty. China is an example of this.
You can have societies with a lot of socialist institutes and have a lot of civil liberties. Most european countries, Canada, to name a few.

Each system has a different focus. Capitalism focuses on property as the most valuable thing in a society while socialism focuses on people as the most important thing in society.

I think that the most effective way to organize society is to use capitalism for areas that are property focussed, such as manufacturing, retail and socialism for things that either must be controlled by the government, such as the military, or for things that are about people, such as health and education.

Too many people, I think, are for all or nothing solutions. We are seeing in the current economic crisis, the results of unregulated capitalism.

Even before the meltdown, the distance between rich and poor was getting wider every year.

And, of course, examples of the failure of pure socialism or communism abound.
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Last edited by Rusticus; 09-25-2008 at 09:15 PM.
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Old 09-25-2008, 09:29 PM
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This is the most embarrassing poll I have ever seen.

Please, someone explain how in a free market society they have less freedom than in socialist society.

Have we really began to equate freedom with handouts?

What a sad day for our country.
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