and are you going to tell me Joe that the Democrats dont lie and are not hypocrites?... i seen many Dems who will stand with the minority about civil rights,BUT, just dont move into my neighborhood....and of course yes lets redistribute the wealth,but we will use YOUR money,not mine....they are both corrupt parties Joe....big time....

ill pay a little bit more Marsu...if i have a growth on my ass,i can get it removed next week,while in Canada, because its not life threatening, we can do it 8 months from now,in the meantime it gets to the size of a grapefruit,but its ok,because its not life threatening....if you prefer that,knock yourself out....

I prefer ale and bourbon.

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In bottle:

apple wine
concord wine
sparkling hard cider

In fermenter:

Chocolate raspberry port
wheat ale
cyser

On deck:

porter
golden lager
light ale

I would agree with a little of this but very little. Consider only the idea of the individual, both ideologies today embrace the individual but in different ways. One as being responsible, the other to be left alone. Work out the ramifications of that single item given the ways it is tossed about today and you see how hard it is to see the individual as even a key piece of either. In the end left alone but responsible could be either.

The author actually makes a good argument for socialism minus the religious piece. Socialism should get religion and they'd become a meaningful political ideology. You think, nah, why not, because I'll be darned if I'm gonna let that freeloader share in my work. So then what does the group mean to the conservative? Not a heck of a lot in my opinion. That could have been a liberal speaking too.

"But if Durkheim is right, then sacredness is really about society and its collective concerns. God is useful but not necessary. The Democrats could close much of the gap if they simply learned to see society not just as a collection of individuals—each with a panoply of rights--but as an entity in itself, an entity that needs some tending and caring." Huh, do we all need to go to the same church? And as soon as any democrat gets into any issue that concerns groups they are called socialists, another dirty word. Ain't tending and caring socialism! Two items define conservative for me: aversion to change and a sense of the natural (religious).

But allow me to throw some sand in his argument given the contemporary division between lib and con which I am old enough to have witnessed in a front row seat. Remove LBJ's great society. End the remnants of the New Deal. Get rid of social security. Allow prayer in school. Make abortion illegal. Reduce government. Now find me a conservative voter, oh, I forgot taxes. 'We the people' is about groups isn't it and isn't' that about as liberal as One can get?

Politics are at the margins in America, so what does that mean in terms of these two key ideological frames? I'm not sure and want to read through some of the replies, but I prefer liberal as I see it as tolerant, inclusive, and progressive. It would be interesting to redo his argument democrat v republican and name names (actual policy) not high level categories.

Thanks for the thread, I haven't looked at edge in a while, I love their yearly books on profound questions.

I've read that its literally hard wired into us on how we feel partisan wise. Republicans are survivalists no matter the cost and democrats are pacifists even if it hurts their chance of survival.

sounds pretty accurate to me.

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I'm a Patriot

[quote=Originally Posted by Joe1991
Why is it when someone points out the two biggest problems with the GOP, (lies and hypocracy),
the first response is always "and democrats are perfect, huh!"

Back on topic, the differences are very, very simple.

Repubs are about "me, mine, and my money"
Dems are about "me, you, and us"[/QUOTE]

Uhmm, actually the democrats are about "me, you, and YOUR money."

Fear fear fear. They actually believe GWB and are afraid.

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Bill Ayers for Secretary of Education
The first duty of a revolutionary is to get away with it. Abbie Hoffman
Imagine no possesions, I wonder if you can, No need for greed or hunger, A brotherhood of man. Imagine all the people Sharing all the world. John Lennon
I've been smiling lately, dreaming about the world as one. And I believe it could be someday it's going to come. Cat Stevens
Member: Bottom feeders Local 101

pretty much hits the nail on the head.

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Life should be sacred, not traded.

So FDR and Truman were conservatives? Or LBJ? And Bush jr and deferment Dick were warriors. Too quickly so called hard wired ideology positions become stupid. Or you mean chicken hawks are survivalists. Now I get it chickens are the brave ones. No, that's not it either! LOL


"All the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting. George Orwell

Media (and democrats)
What makes people vote Kim or Jong Il?

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Obama, Bob Gates, Colin Powel, Hillary Clinton and other war criminals from Bush administration… Yes, it's a change we can forget about, because do not forget, it was a candidate brought to you by a non democratic media, while any real candidate has been obscured by it.

You will not see any change until you unite for democratic media.