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Old 09-29-2008, 07:49 PM
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Default Churches decide to pay taxes, endorse McCain

That's the only logical outcome, as they all know the law states they will lose their tax-exempt status by doing so. And yes, I would say the same for any church that openly endorses Obama from the pulpit...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...092802365.html

Quote:
CROWN POINT, Ind., Sept. 28 -- Defying a federal law that prohibits U.S. clergy from endorsing political candidates from the pulpit, an evangelical Christian minister told his congregation Sunday that voting for Sen. Barack Obama would be evidence of "severe moral schizophrenia."

Johnson and 32 other pastors across the country set out Sunday to break the rules, hoping to generate a legal battle that will prompt federal courts to throw out a 54-year-old ban on political endorsements by tax-exempt houses of worship.

The ministers contend they have a constitutional right to advise their worshipers how to vote. As Johnson put it during a break between sermons, "The point that the IRS says you can't do it, I'm saying you're wrong."

The campaign, organized by the Alliance Defense Fund, a socially conservative legal consortium based in Arizona, has gotten the attention of the Internal Revenue Service. The agency, alerted by opponents, pledged to "monitor the situation and take action as appropriate."

Asked why he felt the need to discuss the candidates by name and to be explicit in rejecting Obama and his pro-choice views, Johnson said he must connect the dots because he is not sure that all members of his congregation can do so on their own.
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Old 09-29-2008, 07:52 PM
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I for one hope the legal system fries those churches. With fines and back taxes. They should jail the pastors as well.
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Old 09-29-2008, 08:01 PM
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Just to comment on these points:

Quote:
The ministers contend they have a constitutional right to advise their worshipers how to vote. As Johnson put it during a break between sermons, "The point that the IRS says you can't do it, I'm saying you're wrong."
Distorts the question. You can do it; you just lose your special religious legal privileges -- including tax-exempt status -- when you do so.

Note the word "privilege."

Quote:
Asked why he felt the need to discuss the candidates by name and to be explicit in rejecting Obama and his pro-choice views, Johnson said he must connect the dots because he is not sure that all members of his congregation can do so on their own.
LOL!! Translation: "My congregants are too stupid to think for themselves."
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Old 09-29-2008, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
They should jail the pastors as well.
That seems a little excessive.
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Old 09-29-2008, 08:04 PM
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They plan to challenge the constitutionality of the law. They possibly could win on the grounds of free speech and that the separation of church and state meant that government could not impose religion, not that religious institutions cannot voice political support.

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That seems a little excessive.
Oh reallly? The Ayers supporter is excessive with fascism you say? Who'd have thought such a thing. Now you know why I don't trust Obama.
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LOL!! Translation: "My congregants are too stupid to think for themselves."
It is no secret that religious drones are usually not very bright.
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Last edited by XVZ; 09-29-2008 at 08:10 PM.
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Old 09-29-2008, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
I for one hope the legal system fries those churches. With fines and back taxes. They should jail the pastors as well.
They broke specific rules and should suffer the prescribed consequences. No one should be jailed for expressing their opinions.
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Old 09-29-2008, 08:31 PM
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I say, go ahead churches, let your congregation pay to know what they really think.

The tax base could use the money these days.
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Old 09-29-2008, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XVZ View Post
They plan to challenge the constitutionality of the law. They possibly could win on the grounds of free speech and that the separation of church and state meant that government could not impose religion, not that religious institutions cannot voice political support.
IMO, they will lose because they have no constitutional right to a tax exemption.

Quote:
Oh reallly? The Ayers supporter is excessive with fascism you say? Who'd have thought such a thing. Now you know why I don't trust Obama.
I don't support Ayers. And the hyperbole required to use "Obama" and "fascism" in the same sentence is laughable.
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Old 09-29-2008, 09:47 PM
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Federal appeals courts in the US have already ruled on this. Churches regularly lose their tax exempt status in the US for any number of reasons including political involvement. And the courts have consistently backed the IRS.
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Old 09-30-2008, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raytri View Post
IMO, they will lose because they have no constitutional right to a tax exemption.
That may be so, but I don't think it meshes with "Congress shall make no laws" limiting free speech. Remember, government takes taxes, it doesn't "give" anything in relation to taxes. That is why I think the argument is unconstitutional, but that is just my humble opinion.

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I don't support Ayers. And the hyperbole required to use "Obama" and "fascism" in the same sentence is laughable.
I am not laughing. Obama and his attempts to squelch free speech is very scary to me.
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Last edited by XVZ; 09-30-2008 at 06:49 AM.
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