I wonder what the result for the question, "Would you like your child to be a homophobic, right wing fascist?" would have been.

Or, if you and your wife died, would you want your child to be raised in an orphanage, by foster parents who were in it for the money or by a loving homosexual couple who would love your child and do their best to see that he or she reached their potential.

Your third question about your wife marrying your son is really too stupid to be addressed.

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Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. Dwight D. Eisenhower

A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes. Mark Twain

Not really. Homosexuality didn't become a concept until the 1800's. And even then, the concept isn't exactly what it means today. What it means today is a loving relationship between a man and a man or a woman and a woman.

The Bible at the time it was written had no way of understanding that concept. So to suggest God condemns such a concept makes no sense to me. Would God really condemn love? The greatest weapon for peace on earth? I doubt it.

No one has called me normal, I guess I just preferred males, seems to fit that way.

They are pushing for the laws to be changed because they are being discriminated against!

The fact that you try to compare gay people to prostitutes and drug dealers only highlights the fact that your position is extremely bigoted. The drug laws and prostitution laws are not what this thread is about...if you want to discuss those issues, start a thread but lets not hi-jack this one.

Churches discriminate NOW. They discriminate on the basis of gender dont they? Employers, notary, pharmacists etc cant do that though...but CHURCHES can..so dont try to tell me that churches are going to be forced to do anything. Gay folks are only asking for the STATE recognition and rights.

The churches cant even be forced to marry hetero couples! They turned down friends of mine because those friends didnt attend the church regularly so were not considered "members in good standing"....obviously they can discriminate and choose what couples they will marry and which they wont. This isnt about churches, its about state discrimination which should NEVER be tolerated.

My tolerance for those who disagree is fully in tact...I dont advocate that you have ANY OF YOUR RIGHTS stripped from you. I dont advocate that we strip bigots of their right to marry do I?

Its odd you neglected some of my questions....would it be ok to take away the right for inter-racial couples to marry? Thats a choice right? Can the majority vote for that?

You also never answered that if marriage is religous why you NEED a state license and why it must be a court that dissolves the marriage....dont skip over the hard questions.

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"You can't go around building a better world for people. Only people
can build a better world for people. Otherwise it's just a cage."
-- (Terry Pratchett, Witches Abroad)

I apologize, I should have specified. I meant about the priests being sued. I'd heard about the photographer and disagreed with the gay couple bringing suit.

(Just as an aside, when you add you own comments in the middle of someone else's quotes, but you leave them all the same color, it's hard to keep track.)

Please provide a non-biased, non-Christian or Fundamentalist based source that backs up your claim that [b]"Science determined that, not me. I simply chose to agree. Are you saying that humans have no control over their actions, surely not "

Yes, I have emotions and opinions about this.
Because yes, I am being discriminated against.
Are you married?
Have you ever had to take your spouse to the hospital?
When it was NOT a danger to your spouse, but rather at the whim of the idiot, biogted hospital worker who didn't like you for some reason, have you ever been ordered out of a room where your loved one was or ordered to sit there are not say a single word? Ever had to sit there in silence while you knew something horribly wrong was happening, but if you opened your mouth, you'd get thrown out, quite possibly arrested?


Don't talk to me about Powers of attorney when I keep telling you, unless there is a law that supersedes these arrangements, there will be times, these aren't honored!

I don't give a flying rat's patooie what it's called. Call it a marriage, call it a civil union, call it a freakin' toaster!
But if there were a law across the boards, across the states that says that yes, two consenting adults, no matter the gender, can legally enter into a binding contract with each other, then I wouldn't be sitting here griping about this.

As long as there are laws on the books that say it's up to a judges, or worse yet, a few hundred or thousand voters, to decide about MY life, yeah, I'm gonna speak up.

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Even though I know I run the risk of it painting me in bad light, I just don't know that I'll ever forgive Kim for lying to JD about their son.

Tresha, I sure am sorry for your problems, No I have no experience with your particular situation. I'm sure it had to be very hard.

However, I have had the experience of being a single Mother of 2, out of work, being told by an employer that he didn't hire women to work around his men.
I do understand discrimination, as I said the homosexual community is not the only ones that felt it. Sometimes you just have to accept what you can't change, right or wrong.

Again I am sorry for your pain!

I've never claimed the gay community was the only one who has felt discrimination.
And we will apparently have to respectfully agree to disagree. I don't have to accept what I cannot change, that's bull puckey.
I have to live within what the law is now, yes.
And fight like hell to get it changed. If people just sat back and did nothing, especially in the face of things that are wrong this world would be a much worse place than it already is.

And I appreciate you recognizing my difficulties.

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Even though I know I run the risk of it painting me in bad light, I just don't know that I'll ever forgive Kim for lying to JD about their son.

From my understanding, most are for civil union like arrangements that provide exactly the same benefits as marriage, but that same folks are against calling it marriage... no?

It is written that Christians are not to condemn the world, as they are allready condemned by he who has the authority to do so.

What an interesting concept,.. in part I would agree with you but there is a major flaw in your argument.

Example: I own a Christian buisness and I intend to benifit Christians by giving them employment,.. a homosexual applies for a job and I deny him based upon his choice to engage in such activity.

Yup you see it comming on several levels,..

So after I'm sued for discrimination, and forced to conduct my buisness in a different way than I choose, My beliefs have been trashed, and If I or any of my employees speak out,.. or refuse to tolerate the homosexuals presence we are the ones that should leave?

I think not.

No one has the right to force me to go against my beliefs in order to make a living,.. oddly enough this was also written of in the Bible.


Actually its a choice,.. and most Christians that are able home school.

Luckily we are not bound to be tolerant of immoral behavior, so I guess the whole oppressing thing will continue.


Actually GOD is the one that finds it abhorant,.. we just try to follow suit.

Yup

You dont have the athourity to make that statement,.. it reaks of ignorance and accusation.

I do not know what this means.

Christians are to point out sin to their brother in hopes he may be free from such. But I doubt that is what you refer,..

Rather I believe you use the self righteous to justify an attack upon faith.
Jesus said there will be those who will perform miracles in my name,.. but when they come to enter my Fathers Kingdom I will say I know them not.


And some do not. the point however is moot. Jesus when addressing the Pharisees was clear about the Sabbath.

You experts of the law, woe to you for you, for you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you will not lift one finger to help them.
Luke 11:46

What do you imagine he meant?



People often choose to adhere to rules that have extreme moral consequence such as murder or sexual imorality,.. but they may completely over look coveting their neighbors house.

Is that because they picked that sin to harbor?,.. of course not!

What does paul say in Romans? I do what I dont want to,.. who will save me from this body of death? PRAISE be to the Lord Jesus Christ, for in him is my salvation..


You have misinterpereted both the example, and modern Christianity.
Faith without works is dead James 2:14-18

I am not.

Thats not exactly true. First you must seperate based upon believers or non believers,.. the majority of the bible is for those who believe,.. what instruction could God have for anyone if they deny his existance?

Jesus said if you are guilty of one sin, you are guilty of all,.. why did he say that?,... so that we will not compare one to another and judge according to our standards because in the eyes of GOD we are all guilty.

You give no allowance for indivduality. I wont argue that people will be more acceptant of 1 sin over another,.. as they may view 1 worse,.. and that is a trap that Christians often fall into. However I'm sure at least an equal number have beliefs that are formed according to experience and it is by such their views are formed

You are in no position to make that statement,.. but lets say for the sake of argument you are correct and that none of those who oppose homosexuality for moral reasons,.. rather they are as you say "disgusted" by it,... GOD views it as detestable.

So what is your point,..

Christians sharing the views of their GOD?,...probably a good thing.

Nothing. But instead of trying to apply a response to a question other than what it was intended, lets put it in proper context and see how it works

JavaBlack is the whole "denial of faith" thing important?

Ironman Its everything,.. the walk of a Christian is to strive for perfection,.. why would anyone compromise their values in one area just because they are weak in another. If an athelete is weak in one area does he let the rest of his body go?

No, he trains harder, and works to strenghten that which is weak. Likewise we as Christians are to overcome through the power of the Lord. That is the way the Lord has directed us to seperate ourselves.

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I can understand why people say "God bless America",.. what I cannot grasp is why he should.

This world is not fair, we all know that! As I stated, the laws may change in time, but pushing people to change their minds about something fundamentally
important to them will not change your situation.
We will respectfully agree to disagree. Good Luck with your circumstance