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Old 12-24-2008, 11:57 AM
Toonik Toonik is offline
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Default I feel myself unsafe in a religious world

It is my understanding that a religion is a primitive attempt to explain everything in a one book or something like that. It should have died out when at least some of the people started to realize that these so called explainations where probably created by some more or less charismatic and creative persons because scientific proof dismissing them were starting to emerge. So these primitive people started to retell the same story to their young and so forward.

And that is how we find ourselves in a funny position where there is a scientific elite of people who have created the current society as we know it. And during this creation they have been constantly disturbed by power-hungry or stupid religious fools (who in fact have been proven wrong in a number of occasions).

So there is the point of this monologue: I am feeling the that moderate person is ever more distancing from the "scientific conquers of mankind" (or so this gray mass likes to call them) since the average person is growing more and more easy-going. So they dream of mundane stuff like getting as much as possible of that green paper or debate on important stuff like how to improve there sex-life etc. There is that "advanced" human that votes representatives in our democratic (well mostly) world. And this means that ever more important decisions are made by people incapable to cope with the scientific revolutions taking place almost daily.
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Old 12-24-2008, 12:16 PM
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And that is how we find ourselves in a funny position where there is a scientific elite of people who have created the current society as we know it. And during this creation they have been constantly disturbed by power-hungry or stupid religious fools (who in fact have been proven wrong in a number of occasions).
Not to mention the power-hungry atheists, Stalin, Mao, goofing things up. At least they were proven right, eh?
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Old 12-24-2008, 12:31 PM
Toonik Toonik is offline
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Not to mention the power-hungry atheists, Stalin, Mao, goofing things up. At least they were proven right, eh?
You have brought up the second side of the stupidity I see in this world. Those supporters of these power-hungry idiots were uneducated folk that had fallen into the claws of society since it was not able to help them. The irony is that these these these folk are given the opportunities, yet they waste the chance to get well-educated and therefore end up religious, communist (who by the way due to his/her stupidity might as well be religious) or any other group fitting the description.
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Old 12-24-2008, 12:50 PM
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A site I think might say it better than I could is:
www.godandscience.org
Excellent site. Couldnt have said it better myself.

If you need a sign just go outside and look up....theres your sign!

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Old 12-24-2008, 12:53 PM
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Hey Toon'. There is a reason the initial responses to your post referenced especially charismatic political characters. Politics and religion all derive from a common psychological root; the proposition that belief can replace the unappeasable logic of reality.

Your lament that the understanding of important issues is ever more remote from that which exercises the majorities' mind is well taken. The fundamental cancer of democracy emerges when the mind of the "demos" is allowed to weaken or is distracted with bread and circuses. Unless this changes, the future looks more like Caesar than Jefferson.
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Old 12-24-2008, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Toonik View Post
It is my understanding that a religion is a primitive attempt to explain everything in a one book or something like that. It should have died out when at least some of the people started to realize that these so called explainations where probably created by some more or less charismatic and creative persons because scientific proof dismissing them were starting to emerge. So these primitive people started to retell the same story to their young and so forward.

And that is how we find ourselves in a funny position where there is a scientific elite of people who have created the current society as we know it. And during this creation they have been constantly disturbed by power-hungry or stupid religious fools (who in fact have been proven wrong in a number of occasions).

So there is the point of this monologue: I am feeling the that moderate person is ever more distancing from the "scientific conquers of mankind" (or so this gray mass likes to call them) since the average person is growing more and more easy-going. So they dream of mundane stuff like getting as much as possible of that green paper or debate on important stuff like how to improve there sex-life etc. There is that "advanced" human that votes representatives in our democratic (well mostly) world. And this means that ever more important decisions are made by people incapable to cope with the scientific revolutions taking place almost daily.

you should jump off a bridge wearing your tinfoil hat.

btw, I have a bridge for sale
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Old 12-24-2008, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Toonik View Post
It is my understanding that a religion is a primitive attempt to explain everything in a one book or something like that. It should have died out when at least some of the people started to realize that these so called explainations where probably created by some more or less charismatic and creative persons because scientific proof dismissing them were starting to emerge. So these primitive people started to retell the same story to their young and so forward.
Why can't science and religion go together?

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Ms. Garrison: That's right, kids. And so you see, there is no God.
Richard Dawkins: Careful, darling. The school board doesn't like it when we...
Stan: Well, there could still be a God.
Ms. Garrison: [surprised] What?
Stan: Couldn't evolution be the answer to how and not the answer to why?
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Originally Posted by Toonik View Post
And that is how we find ourselves in a funny position where there is a scientific elite of people who have created the current society as we know it.
Since many things we have today was discovered by religion. You should maybe open a book once in a while.

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Old 12-24-2008, 10:11 PM
Toonik Toonik is offline
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Originally Posted by Coyote! View Post
Hey Toon'. There is a reason the initial responses to your post referenced especially charismatic political characters. Politics and religion all derive from a common psychological root; the proposition that belief can replace the unappeasable logic of reality.

Your lament that the understanding of important issues is ever more remote from that which exercises the majorities' mind is well taken. The fundamental cancer of democracy emerges when the mind of the "demos" is allowed to weaken or is distracted with bread and circuses. Unless this changes, the future looks more like Caesar than Jefferson.
I agree and I feel this is exactly happening right now. Don't know much about the state in other countries, but here in Estonia major universities are troubled with constantly decreasing capabilities of the students. They admit that the level of the bright-minded students is always increasing but there is far less of them than there was earlier. I feel that it is just a matter of time when this crowd starts to bother scientific work. Something like the fear of the LHC project. My fear is that the average person distancing from these discoveries and basing their opinion of them on how one or another books tells them to think.

Irony of it all is that after something useful has been discovered average person very rapidly adapts to it and later starts to call it "advance of the mankind" or something like that

Last edited by Toonik; 12-24-2008 at 10:13 PM.
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Old 12-24-2008, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toonik View Post
It is my understanding that a religion is a primitive attempt to explain everything in a one book or something like that. It should have died out when at least some of the people started to realize that these so called explainations where probably created by some more or less charismatic and creative persons because scientific proof dismissing them were starting to emerge. So these primitive people started to retell the same story to their young and so forward.

And that is how we find ourselves in a funny position where there is a scientific elite of people who have created the current society as we know it. And during this creation they have been constantly disturbed by power-hungry or stupid religious fools (who in fact have been proven wrong in a number of occasions).

So there is the point of this monologue: I am feeling the that moderate person is ever more distancing from the "scientific conquers of mankind" (or so this gray mass likes to call them) since the average person is growing more and more easy-going. So they dream of mundane stuff like getting as much as possible of that green paper or debate on important stuff like how to improve there sex-life etc. There is that "advanced" human that votes representatives in our democratic (well mostly) world. And this means that ever more important decisions are made by people incapable to cope with the scientific revolutions taking place almost daily.
Excellent post.

It reminds me of the intelligent design theory. When religion extremists are confronted with overwhelming evidence that Earth was not created as the bible says, then they come up with a new theory not based on the slightest shred of evidence.
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Old 12-24-2008, 10:19 PM
Toonik Toonik is offline
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Originally Posted by KSigMason View Post
Why can't science and religion go together?




Since many things we have today was discovered by religion. You should maybe open a book once in a while.

You sound like a irrational fool.
Actually I have no problem with people themselves who have found a spiritual way to appease their fear. But the problem arises when these people go voting and some lunatic ends up in charge, who bans some scientific work because it might disprove bible or something like that.

I don't understand? What discoveries are you referring to?
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