No, I am not debating whether Jesus existed but he was insignificant during his lifetime and we have no writings from Jesus to actually support what he may or may not have said. We only have documents written decades later, many of which were written by a person that never even met Jesus, which either paraphrase his teachings or are a complete fabrication.

Christianity is not based upon the teachings of Jesus but instead is based upon what other people defined as the teachings of Jesus. Many choose to forget this simple fact.

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http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/index.htm
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OH i see now you mean literally. I was looking at the bigger picture his strategic teachings. So what you are saying i think is he was great because he had to be in order for literature to be written in his name but because it was written in his name it cant be truly validated. And i will agree i personally think the bible is missing passages cause there is no way God would let armaggedon happen without telling us how to stop it. And I also believe the simply concept I learned when I was in elementary school how a story passed down from generation to generation changes its improbable that it can be exact.

And he didnt technically build a thriving church when he was here that came later ( because the masses were against christianity)

But I digress as a tactician he was brillant to be non violent and to create a movement from just a handful of men and if he didnt do it as you say the the name Jesus was a beautiful tactic. Knowing man would never accept his teaching during his lifetime. Instead those men taught by him skillfully influenced others behind the back of the masses creating a silent movement.

Then once they gained strength (one faithful at a time) there teaching emerged powerful and conquering.

So if you look at it as how could he fight armies and retain rule with just a handful of men there is your answer and he was very successful through time as his teachings dictate and also at that moment (remember that why you fight so hard so your children dont have to, and your child is suppose to do better than you and create upon what you have taught them).

I also believe the bible should be a million pages long because we can only validate the belief that Jesus and God doesnt exist because we act as his lessons expired a couple hundred years ago thats improbable and unlikely.

So every point anyone can make about the teachings of religion becomes just.
So as it stand im forced to have to agree with you but pose a counter agrument at the same time .

True, but most of those stories were just the written word of the stories of Jesus anyway, not fabrications. Of course, every writer may have added their own bias but it is essentially what Jesus would have taught.

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But how does one seperate the complete teachings of christ from the teachings of man? Man can see hate from the bible because fear was put into the bible by man not God(I say this because it now becomes the perspective of a sinner and there is my problem)

I mean simply that The bible has become a source of fear i think (allowed by man)

Evil doesnt necessarily hate good evil will accept a solider from good(ex. a racist accepted slaves as slaves)(islamic radicals accept all colors and races). Evil just believe its right. And rightly so there is two ways to peace chaos or enlightment and evolution. Imagine which side is which.

Good doesnt hate evil they feel sorry for evil its just simply

Gods angels protect peace (and if evil has to feel wrath them its a sad day)

Evil trys to make peace. Peace always existed its just through enlightenment in understanding has it changed the meaning evil just simply wants to change it back.

And in conclusion if it is hate you feel for them then its just your evil trying to make them peaceful.


In saying this its not hate you feel but a need to protect the good around you

My question becomes I derived this from the teaching of scriptures Of Gods but not everyone thinks the same because man wrote it does it not allow for evil influence? ( after all everyone of us our sinners by the bibles definition so technically the bible is flawed because of flawed man) And aslo this is proven because the bible allows multiple perceptions of one message.

Marx and Engels invented communism. At one point communism had millions of followers. Does that make them successful leaders.

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Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. Dwight D. Eisenhower

A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes. Mark Twain

How do you know that? None of the writings in the New Testamont are dated prior to 30 years after Jesus had died.

Human memory is frail at best and certainly people put a "spin" on things that they endorse. Think about it, we have the invasion of Iraq which only happened about 6 years ago and rarely can anyone cited anything that Bush said accurately from memory. Think about Martin Luther Kings famous "I had a dream" speech and how many can quote it verbatum? Most can't even remember the main points accurately much less what he actually said. Throw into the mix that the most prolific writer in the New Testamont never heard a single word that Jesus said and I think we have a very distorted view of the teachings of Jesus.

Let us also not forget that during the canonizing of the Bible the Church made decisions on what would be included and those writing which they considered heresy. They did this to impose political control over the people and for no other reason.

I have a simple problem for you. What if Jesus never said he was the "son of god" and this was invented by the religious leaders 30 years or more later? Could the entire basis for Christianity be invented and have nothing to do with the actual teachings of Jesus?

Once again, lacking any direct teachings from Jesus including even a contemporary transcript of one of his sermons sort of leaves us with nothing except what some individuals said many, many years later and those individuals had a vest interest in presenting what they wanted others to believe which would supercede the actual teachings of Jesus.

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We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, —
http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/index.htm
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hi is supposed to fail.....he is not a person, he is a character....he is the SUN... the bible is astro-theologly...a telling of the ZODIAC calander, he is supposed to fail, to make way for a new religion.

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Do your part to support israel, israel is NOT to be discussed.

First off, back then, remembering stories verbatim, or near enough to, was more common then today and, even if not remembered completely, the essential essence of the story could be. It was not like remembering a speech word for word as it was more how one remembers a joke, if you simply get the main gist of the joke and deliver the correct punch line, you still have told the same joke, only slightly differently.

Also, those individuals who wrote the New Testament did not have a 'vested interest' in presenting Jesus in a way that they wanted others to believe, that would not happen until the time of Constantine 300 years later. Their only interest was recording the life and teachings of Jesus as they heard them. Whilst those stories may be slightly altered, the essential teachings remain the same.

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You are an optimist. But why worry, your believe is based on faith any way. If there were real proof, anyone could believe it and faith wouldn't be important.

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Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. Dwight D. Eisenhower

A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes. Mark Twain

Faith is the backbone of religion if we had physical proof there would be no choices to make. Only fear would remain