http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blo...failed-leader/



I think there is a flaw in the argument of failed leadership. In my opinion leadership doesnt and shouldnt end with the demise of the leader.

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If facts dont fit the theory change the facts.
-A quote popularly attributed to Albert Einstein

Christianity did not gain a foothold until the principle of martyrdom was used as a propaganda tool of early religious leaders.

Jesus was not the "leader" of Christianity which really didn't occur until many, many years after his death and the leaders were those that sought power over the people.

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We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, —
http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/index.htm
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Jesus was not really a leader; neither were the 12 apostles.

The guy who built the Church as an institution, by selling Christian ideas across the Roman Empire, was Paul. That is what leadership looks like.

I guess you are right. Jesus was not a leader.

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If facts dont fit the theory change the facts.
-A quote popularly attributed to Albert Einstein

DKV, I don't know. I agree with you. This concept called "leadership" can be viewed in many different ways. If you take one definition of what occurred during Jesus's time, you could say he was a failure.

But in other definitions, say influence on the world, he definitely had success. But I suspect the author is really looking only at the one definition because that is what is being promoted at religious institutions and he wants to make the point that the traditional concept of leadership isn't what Jesus is about. I mean Jesus may have been a failure at cooking as well but is that really important?

Was he defeated by the ghost king?

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Im a Tarte, what! you want some of this!
There is no true opposition between liberty as such and control as such, for every liberty rests on a corresponding act of control. The true opposition is between the control that cramps the personal life and the spiritual order, and the control that is aimed at securing the external and material conditions of their free and unimpeded development.. L. T. Hobhouse

Its hard to argue with the breadth and depth of his following. A poor guy who died more than 2000 years ago still has millions and possibly billions of followers today, yet you consider hinm a failed leader?

Your logic is non existent!

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If trees could scream would we be so cavalier about cutting them down?.........

We would if they screamed all the time and for no good reason! - Jack Handy

What passes for Christianity today has little to do with the man himself.

The point is that the effect of Jesus during his lifetime was so insignificant as to be totally undocumented by contemporary documentation during his lifetime. While we have contemporary documentation of the leaders of Rome there isn't even a single mention of Jesus historically while he was alive. All of the propaganda came many years after his death.

As has been noted, Paul more so that anyone else, was the greatest proponent of Jesus and Paul never even met Jesus. Not a single writing of Paul is linked to the actual life of Jesus or anything that Jesus actually said but instead is merely his opinions related to the life and teachings of Jesus.

We could almost compare it to a contemporary religion being founded upon David Koresh. David Koresh had a very limited following which was insignificant to the world but someone could pick up the banner today and organize a religion based upon the life David Koresh espousing him to be the son of God. The difference would be that David Koresh actually wrote down things and could be accurately quoted but Jesus never wrote down a single word so every quotation we have attributed to Jesus is either paraphrased or completely fictional.

__________________
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, —
http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/index.htm
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jesus is nota failure......as a personafication of the sun, his daily heat and light are blessings from his father, mr.god