Solution for Israel Palestine...One or Two state solution? - Page 13

calmObserver · #**121** (**permalink**) 01-27-2009, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jellah

...This is about ISRAEL and not about "Jews"...

unfortunately most now believe; zionism == judiasm

and not by accident.

Jojo · #**122** (**permalink**) 01-27-2009, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jellah

First of all its not "Jews", its Israel...and to try and hi-jack all Jews and make them responsible for what Israel does is not only ridiculous...its bigoted. Israel is a nation and is held accountable for their actions like any other nation in the world is.

Britain doesnt represent all whites nor all christians....so why should we assume the Israel represents all Jews?

Secondly, the people who are denying Palestinians their rights are the Israelis. It is the Israelis who continue to expand settlements, take their water, bulldoze their homes and any other infastructure they build up, who makes them go through check points that are designed to make their lives hell and unbearable, its Israel who raids them and occupies them, imprisons them and chokes their trade and their development, who cuts them off from their own farms, who confiscates more and more lands each and every month of each and every year.

BTW its rather ironic that you called Courtney a fool when Courtney was actually being sarcastic and I am sure agrees with you...that sort of makes YOU look like a fool. This was rather easy to know had you spent a few minutes actually reading the posts and exchange. You ask someone to study history while you didnt even bother to read the few posts that would have helped you comprehend the post you responded to!

Jellah - I was being sarcastic......sigh

Jellah · #**123** (**permalink**) 01-27-2009, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jojo

Jellah - I was being sarcastic......sigh

The only sarcasm I noticed was you trying to make it seem like everyone was attacking the "jews" when this is about Israels actions.

wyly · #**124** (**permalink**) 01-27-2009, 08:58 PM

if South Africa can give up white rule and it's Bantustans which is essentially Israel's policy towards the Palestinians then Israel can do the same...a single secular state can work but there needs to be some proding of Israel from the US for this to happen...with the perpetual fear in Washington of the american jewish lobby I won't hold my breath for this to happen....

i.beletesri · #**125** (**permalink**) 01-28-2009, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jellah

The only sarcasm I noticed was you trying to make it seem like everyone was attacking the "jews" when this is about Israels actions.

This isn't about Catholics.. it's about the Vatican.

Quote:

"Anti-zionists but we have nothing against the Jews as such"

By Steven Plaut

Say What? Anti-Semites? Who, us anti-Zionists? US? We have nothing against Jews as such. We just hate Zionism and Zionists. We think Israel does not have a right to exist. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such. Heavens to Mergatroyd. Marx Forbid. We are humanists. Progressives. Peace lovers.

Anti-Semitism is the hatred of Jews. Anti-Zionism is opposition to Zionism and Israeli policies. The two have nothing to do with one another. Venus and Mars. Night and Day. Trust us.

Sure, we think the only country on the earth that must be annihilated is Israel. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

[.....]

Naturally, we think that the only people on earth who should never be allowed to exercise the right of self-defense are the Jews. Jews should only resolve the aggression against them through capitulation, never through self-defense. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

We only denounce racist apartheid in the one country in the Middle East that is NOT a racist apartheid country. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

We refuse to acknowledge the Jews as a people, and think they are only a religion. We do not have an answer to how people who do not practice the Jewish religion can still be regarded as Jews. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

We think that all peoples have the right to self-determination, except Jews, and including even the make-pretend Palestinian "people". But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

[.....]

We demand that the only country in the Middle East with free speech, free press, or free courts be destroyed. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

We oppose military aggression, except when it is directed at Israel. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

We really understand suicide bombers who murder bus loads of Jewish children and we insist that their demands be met in full. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

We think the only conflict on earth that must be solved through dismembering one of the parties to that conflict is the one involving Israel. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

[.....]

There are Jewish leftist anti-Zionists and we consider this proof that anti-Zionists could not possibly be anti-Semitic. Not even the ones who cheer when Jews are mass murdered. These are the only Jews we think need be acknowledged or respected. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

[....]

We do not think the Jews are entitled to their own state and must submit to being a minority in a Rwanda-style "bi-national state", although no other state on earth, including the 22 Arab countries, should be similarly expected to be deprived of its sovereignty. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

We think that Israel's having a Jewish majority and a star on its flag makes it a racist apartheid state.
We do not think Any other country having an ethnic-religious Majority or having crosses or crescents or "Allah Akbar" on its flag is racist or needs dismemberment. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

[.....]

We have no trouble with the fact that there is no freedom of religion in any Arab countries. But we are mad at hell at Israel for violating religious freedom, and never mind that we are never quite sure where or when it does so. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

So how can you possibly say we are anti-Semites? We are simply anti-Zionists. We seek peace and justice, that's all. And surely that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

http://www.freeman.org/m_online/oct03/plaut1.htm

-

Zoe · #**126** (**permalink**) 01-29-2009, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by i.beletesri

This isn't about Catholics.. it's about the Vatican.

-

I read the diatribe you posted and it made me think of the kind of discussions I have with my kid from time to time. SO childish.

It goes something like this: " You guys are really tough!! Dylan and Andrew get to stay up all night playing video games. THEIR parents don't care. THEY get to eat hot dogs and coke for dinner. Why are you SO unfair!??

The answer is, of course, that Dylan's parents don't ask ME how to set rules for their kids.

The conduct of Israel is more "my business" than that of Libya or Syria because the U.S. actively funds, supports and advises the country of Israel. Many U.S. citizens have made it their home. It is not in any way constructive to avoid facing problems by saying that someone else did it, sometime , somewhere...

So, Palestinians are not even "people",now??!

White Doors · #**127** (**permalink**) 01-29-2009, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoe

I read the diatribe you posted and it made me think of the kind of discussions I have with my kid from time to time. SO childish.

It goes something like this: " You guys are really tough!! Dylan and Andrew get to stay up all night playing video games. THEIR parents don't care. THEY get to eat hot dogs and coke for dinner. Why are you SO unfair!??

The answer is, of course, that Dylan's parents don't ask ME how to set rules for their kids.

The conduct of Israel is more "my business" than that of Libya or Syria because the U.S. actively funds, supports and advises the country of Israel. Many U.S. citizens have made it their home. It is not in any way constructive to avoid facing problems by saying that someone else did it, sometime , somewhere...

So, Palestinians are not even "people",now??!

Wow, that is SO weak.. Egypt get's almost the same amount of funding from the US as does Israel, yet I don't hear you barking here about anything Egypt as done. The countries surrounding Israel gets more money from the US than does Israel put together, yet I hear none of you progressive clamouring for them to partition their country and to tolerate extremism.

Odd..

have a look at that chart, by your standards you should be demanding pretty much every country on earth be partitioned...

But no, you reserve it from Israel only. But you have nothing against the Jews, as such.

Zoe · #**128** (**permalink**) 01-29-2009, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Doors

Wow, that is SO weak.. Egypt get's almost the same amount of funding from the US as does Israel, yet I don't hear you barking here about anything Egypt as done. The countries surrounding Israel gets more money from the US than does Israel put together, yet I hear none of you progressive clamouring for them to partition their country and to tolerate extremism.

Odd..

have a look at that chart, by your standards you should be demanding pretty much every country on earth be partitioned...

But no, you reserve it from Israel only. But you have nothing against the Jews, as such.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/1209/p16s01-wmgn.html
Israel receives by far the most U.S. foreign aid and if you consider the amount on a per capita basis, the amount is much, much higher.

Egypt has been cooperative with U.S. interests and receives aid on that basis. Egypt is considered central to M.E. peace. But we were discussing solutions for peace in Israel. Does Egypt have an internal territorial dispute that could lead to partition?? Please explain!

The accusations of anti-semitism are childish avoidance tactics.

frodly · #**129** (**permalink**) 01-29-2009, 12:51 PM

A one state solution is not a viable option. The number of palestinians will outnumber jews, and the state will no longer be a Jewish state. I personally do not care about that, but I know most israelis won't accept that. Also, the populations now are relatively even, but the palestinian birth rate is far higher. In a few dozen years, the government would be arab and muslim dominated.

Jojo · #**130** (**permalink**) 01-29-2009, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoe

http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/1209/p16s01-wmgn.html
Israel receives by far the most U.S. foreign aid and if you consider the amount on a per capita basis, the amount is much, much higher.

Egypt has been cooperative with U.S. interests and receives aid on that basis. Egypt is considered central to M.E. peace. But we were discussing solutions for peace in Israel. Does Egypt have an internal territorial dispute that could lead to partition?? Please explain!

The accusations of anti-semitism are childish avoidance tactics.

The irony is that Egypt is currently blockading Gaza with orders to shoot to kill palestinians who attempt to get into Egypt. Somehow that is not a problem?

No - accusations of anti-semitism is a response to the fact that somehow people still haven't realized that about 1/3 of the pre-Isreal Palestine population was JEWISH!!!!! Are these people also invaders? Are they evil because they want to help refugees?

Why are arabs who come from nearby countries not invaders - but Palestinian somehow, like Arafat? You are holding two completely different standards - for the exact same behavior.

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