http://ilanpappe.com/?p=58

Here is a debate betwee Ilan Pappe and Uri Avnery about whether the solution is to become 2 states or should they go forward as one state with equal rights for all citizens.

It must be recognized that Palestinians have legitimate claim to live there as its been their home for thousands of years and that they are natives to the lands as well.

Its a very interesting debate between two Israelis who do seek a peaceful solution and have care for all those involved.

Ultimately, I think no matter what the WISH is for anyone....only a one state solution is now possible. I think Israel has already changed facts on the ground so much that it could not really be reversed. Too much land has been taken by Israel and there isnt enough left upon which to create a viable nation.

It seems to me peace would be achieved much faster if this is recognized and acted upon. Absorb all Palestinian territory and all have citizenship and equal rights and the state focuses on how to integrate the society into a cohesive nation that follows a democratic process and allows the citizens to vote and determine the direction of the nation. An end to "jewish only" roads and programs..and an end to ethnic cleansing of any sort.

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can build a better world for people. Otherwise it's just a cage."
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But if Palestine becomes part of Israel, they'll have to change the flag.

Ok, humor aside, I like the one-state solution. The place could be a beacon for Muslim-Jew solidarity. And a lighthouse for the future, when religion and race are irrelevant.

It would take work but I think it could be done...a nation that has a vibrant Christian, Muslim and Jewish population that politcally conducts itself secularly.

It would require reconciliation though and it would mean reparation programs designed to help Palestinians. Jewish immigrants have been getting that kind of govt help to prosper so due to what was taken from Palestinians and due to their inferior position in the state of Israel at this time...this would have to be proactively dealt with.

The facts are that this is inevitable and it would be better to do this in a way that will foster peace between the people rather than the way it is going now. Ultimately..if it continues this way there is a dark future for Jews there because if there is never reconciliation the oppressed masses will eventually win out and there is a good chance they will not be friendly towards the minority who abused them and oppressed them.

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"You can't go around building a better world for people. Only people
can build a better world for people. Otherwise it's just a cage."
-- (Terry Pratchett, Witches Abroad)

This is the solution proposed by Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Of course the NeoCons and the religious "right" are opposed to any solution which would include all of those with a ligitimate claim the the entire land of Palestine (including what is now Israel).

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Like I said in a different thread. Their values, beliefs and laws are just too different. How will they decide which laws and system should the new state have? If you compromised half way than both would be very unhappy, both want to live based on their beliefs and values. No one likes it when the way they were living is drastically changed. Im not talking about land or borders, but laws and society.

A big example is freedom that women have, in Israel they have a lot and in Palestinian not so much. Im sure Israel women won't be very happy if a lot of the freedoms they have are taken away.

Both peoples want to live in drastically different ways. The only way to ensure that is for them to have separate states. It would get so messy if they were forced to live under 1 set of laws for both people. It simply would not work.

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2 state solution is best. Palestinians have never had a state of their own. Arab countries haven't welcomed them any more than Israel has.

Have you ever seen how Dubai and UAE have built islands into the sea. Let's do that. Right off of Gaza. Divert the billions we give Israel to that effort. Arab countries can contribute - it's the least they can do.

Then how are those strict Jewish sects able to live in Israel....they require different busses because this sect doesnt allow women to sit in the front of the bus...its reserved for men only...and yet they are able to live in Israel with such different rules than others live by.

__________________
"You can't go around building a better world for people. Only people
can build a better world for people. Otherwise it's just a cage."
-- (Terry Pratchett, Witches Abroad)

But the reality thats been created is that there isnt enough land left over to create a Palestinian state upon now...Israel has expanded its settlements to such a degree that there isnt enough land to build a nation on. The one state solution is all that is realistic NOW.

Israel is the one sitting on the lands the Palestinians lived on for well over 1000 years....so thats where they have a right to continue to live..its the land of their birth, their homeland and they have a very legitimate claim to it that cant be nor should be ignored.

I would have gone along with the 2 state solution but Israel didnt allow it and they changed the facts on the ground so that one couldnt exist...I doubt very seriously that Israel is willing to tear down the number of settlements it would need to in order to create a Palestinians state..you are talking about hundreds of thousands of people that would have to relocated out of the settlements and into greater Israel....do you REALLY think Israel would do this?

__________________
"You can't go around building a better world for people. Only people
can build a better world for people. Otherwise it's just a cage."
-- (Terry Pratchett, Witches Abroad)

That might be the case, but would the Palestinians feel the same way about Israel women? Are you sure that they will allow them to have the same rights as they currently do?

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Republicans have never met a tax cut they didn't like.
Democrats have never met a spending bill they didn't like.