"President Bush and his supporters are taking credit for spreading freedom across the Middle East. But where changes are genuinely occurring they have nothing to do with the U.S. invasion of Iraq."

http://alternet.org/waroniraq/21540/

i tried explainng that to the bu(*)(*)(*)(*)es here, but they seem keen to ignore it. i can compare them to saying that at 12 noon the clock will strike 12 times....naturally it does, but they claim it heppened because they it would. whereas we all know, that them saying the clock was going to strike - had no affect, on a clock that was about to ring.

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I am a stone, I do not move. I take my time, I let him come closer. I have only one bullet. I aim at his eye. I do not tremble, I have no fear.

I noticed that as well and I have a feeling many people here are going to read the quote in my post and dismiss this thread as another give no credit to Bush thread (no matter what) without even reading the article.

Maybe thats why the site is called Alternet. They live in an alternate reality.

Regardless of what excuses they want to make, there is one undeniable fact. At least two middle east states now have democracies directly due to the US.

Which is a good thing IMO. It legitimizes our position. People can no longer say we are installing a puppet government.

The author doesnt elaborate or explain why. What a suprise.

Uh....you mean like how the elections in Iraq didnt favor US interests Mr. Alternet? heh heh

The article didnt really prove anything IMO. They are making assumptions. But the author doesnt really know. All he can offer is alternative explanations.

What a coincidence it just happened to come about right after the democratization of Iraq.

As opposed to Iraq's Democracy, which places no such "restraints". Which democracy would you rather live under Mr. Alternet?

Yeah...eventually they might reach the stage where Iraq is already. Though probably not without a revolution. Lets keep those fingers crossed and hope those rulers surrender their power willingly!

As opposed to hopeless and indefinite rule under a sadistic despot.

Muslim Fundamentalists elected by the masses. But maybe the author is only in favor of Democracy when it suits US interests?

Little appeal to who? The other absolute rulers and their supporters? Gee...I cant imagine why.

Most days I would have done that. People who post links with little or no description are usually ignored by me. Not posting a summary shows that you probably havnt read the article yourself. If it's not worth your time...why would it be worth mine?

You caught me on a good day though. No need to thank me.

[quote="Sadistic-Savior";p="120379"]to your 'reality'...your probally right

key word here is that you NEVER spread democracy, you changed to by invading....but it never SPREAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

yes we can, because you made sure it was a weakened government so they can't change the desision made by the puppet government.

like he said, he's not deviating, he's discussing the topic, not iraq.

as i said, the elections changed nothing. they were a farce.

why don't you produce me a timetable of attempt for change in middle east...is SERIOUSLY doubt they are going to start from 2001+

iraq has far more, due to a carefully/purposly weakly designed system of government imposed by the US.

only if they are invaded and kept undersole

lets keep the topic to iraq, and not discuss america

probally the population that has to die & drill oil 4 the yankees.

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I am a stone, I do not move. I take my time, I let him come closer. I have only one bullet. I aim at his eye. I do not tremble, I have no fear.

Mouse it is sad that you can't handle reality. I guess you will have to wait for the future when the history books prove you wrong. It's too bad you are so myopic to see what is actually happening.

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Society is produced by our wants and government by our wickedness ~Thomas Paine

if the historians are people like SS - i might just take up reading comic books...get a firmer grasp on reality!

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I am a stone, I do not move. I take my time, I let him come closer. I have only one bullet. I aim at his eye. I do not tremble, I have no fear.

The author did not prove that. All he did was make assumptions (you two have a lot in common). He did not prove that the successful US invasion did not have an impact on democratic movements in the Middle East. And it is difficult for me to believe it is all a coincidence.

It isnt a puppet government. If it was, US-friendly politicians would have been elected. The fact that Muslim Fundamentalists were elected disproves your implication that it's a puppet government.

You cant have it both ways liberals. Sorry. =(

So we cant disprove that the elections were not "exemplary", because he doesnt define what he means. How terribly convenient.

And I'm the one who plays word games? heh heh

You dont believe that people voted for the politicians in office? Please post your evidence.

A system they can change if they want to. It isnt any more "weakened" than the US or British systems. You dont want minorities protected apparently. Most people disagree with you.

Invasion is another option. The rulers are certainly not going to surrender their power willingly. It is naive to believe otherwise IMO.

Again, which option would you prefer?

Please post your evidence that America is under the rule of a Sadistic Despot.

Have you bothered asking the population what they want? Oh yeah, I forgot. you support the right of the despots to speak for them.

show me that their search for more freedoms only occured after 2001+

it's a joke to say that they are like the british/US systems. it uses the same type of system we imposed on germany in WW1 to stunt their ability to do anything because it's such a weak for of governemnt. thus it is a puppet/shadow government. they could have lected in osma bin laden....yet very pro US policys would remain, because iven if osama was president, the way the government is set up, he wouldn't be able to do f**k all against the US.

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I am a stone, I do not move. I take my time, I let him come closer. I have only one bullet. I aim at his eye. I do not tremble, I have no fear.