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  #101 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2005, 06:16 PM
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Hansmoleman Hansmoleman is offline
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Default You are completely wrong

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Originally Posted by thedreamer";p=&quot View Post
Personally I find what many hear find as "true" conservatives are right wing fools who want the government to make every moral decision for eveyone.
And to use our taxes to do this. Which really isn't a good idea in my view.
You have no idea whats like to live in a country that loves its "neutrality". Isolantist? You ain't seen nothin yet a chara.
I would say that "true" conservatives would definately put the Constitution as the focus of our country, and instill patriotism, but they would definately not use to government to make moral decisions for everyone. If anything, that's what Bush is doing (he represents the neo-cons, who are more of the religious right wing conservatives). Guys like Pat Buchanan are more Libertarian, focusing in on individual freedom and isolation from the rest of the world. They stand for the moral foundation of this country but won't go to use the government to do so, if anything they would rather scale back the government until it is stripped to only perfom necesary functions, nothing more.

You should read some Pat Buchanan, he's a brilliant man. I know he wouldn't ever get elected President, but if he did he would very well be one of the most intellectual Presidents we have ever had.
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  #102 (permalink)  
Old 05-17-2005, 07:46 AM
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Default Hey Comrade - You’re an Idiot.

I could cite reasons of why you are an idiot, like the miserable failure of Communism in every country that has tried it, or how anti-Semitism was heartily embraced in the former USSR, or how the last thing you would want is to have an uber-bureaucracy run by inherently selfish and evil human beings, but citing these reasons would be a waste of time because you are an idiot. Why don’t you go find a bread line to stand in?
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  #103 (permalink)  
Old 05-17-2005, 07:59 AM
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Well Sadistic fair dues to you, you've got the Presidient you want.
It is gratifying to see the national ideology moving in my direction. It is sad that it took something as severe as 911 to wake people up.

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If anything, that's what Bush is doing (he represents the neo-cons, who are more of the religious right wing conservatives).
Most Neo-cons are less religious than true conservatives. True conservatives want to cling to the ideology of the founding fathers...which was Christian. By contrast a lot of Neo-cons are not very religious or even atheistic, and pay only lip service to the founding fathers.

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Guys like Pat Buchanan are more Libertarian, focusing in on individual freedom and isolation from the rest of the world.
Pat Buchanan supports laws based on morality. He has no problem imposing his moral views if he can get away with it. Not saying it is right or wrong, but that is not a true libertarian view.

I agree Pat Buchanan is intellegent, but that doesnt necessarily make him right.
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  #104 (permalink)  
Old 05-17-2005, 12:04 PM
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Default Well

I'll admit I haven't read much of Pat Buchanan but I know enough to recognise the type of politics he proposes.
I've no problem with paying moderate taxes, but not their wasting on trying to enforce religion on those of other faiths.
Im always nervous of people who claim they'll cut back on government yet have an agenda to "improve morality".
Spending on economic items can at least improve properity. Spending on "moral enforcement" just increases costs and just gets dictatorial and self-righteous.
Plus I wouldn't be of the isolationist streak.

As to the Neo-Cons. I don't know, I think the way the US is going is only circumstances that got you in power.
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  #105 (permalink)  
Old 05-17-2005, 12:47 PM
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I'll admit I haven't read much of Pat Buchanan but I know enough to recognise the type of politics he proposes.
I dont mean this sarcastically. I really suggest you read up on him before coming to any conclusions. I say this because a lot of people (especially liberals, but not only liberals) make assumptions about Conservatives in general, and Pat Buchanan in particular, that are simply not correct. He's not the Nazi they like to portray him as.

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As to the Neo-Cons. I don't know, I think the way the US is going is only circumstances that got you in power.
That is why I said it is unfortunate that it took 911 to wake people up. Being passive in today's world is dangerous. Being isolationist is dangerous.
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  #106 (permalink)  
Old 05-17-2005, 12:58 PM
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Default (*)(*)(*)(*)ed if you do, (*)(*)(*)(*)ed if you don't

The US is often between a rock and a hard place between isolationism and being the world's policeman. I, for one, really don't care about the rest of the world one bit. I say that we should fight for our survival and nothing else. I think we should not give one dime to any nation unable or unwilling to ever pay us back. I believe that no nation could ever be our "friend" as government's don't have friends, they have interests. What is best for America is not of anyone else's concern, nor is what is best for the rest of the world America's concern.
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  #107 (permalink)  
Old 05-17-2005, 01:17 PM
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Installing democracies contributes to our long term security. Democracies dont attack each other.

Aside from the fact that freeing oppressed people is a good thing.
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  #108 (permalink)  
Old 05-18-2005, 09:06 PM
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Default Yes, you are right

I don't deny that democracies don't fight one another, and freeing the oppressed is a good thing. But I don't want the US to do it anymore. I'm tired of the ungratitude of the rest of the world. We have been TOO generous, it's time for us to focus on ourselves for a change. Screw the rest of the world, we really don't need them. (sorry to put it so bluntly, but I am really bitter about anti American sentiment... and I have a really easy solution, to isolate ourselves and stop giving our money away)
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  #109 (permalink)  
Old 05-19-2005, 08:36 AM
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Default more 'world-hate'

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Originally Posted by Hansmoleman";p=&quot View Post
The US is often between a rock and a hard place between isolationism and being the world's policeman. I, for one, really don't care about the rest of the world one bit. I say that we should fight for our survival and nothing else. I think we should not give one dime to any nation unable or unwilling to ever pay us back. I believe that no nation could ever be our "friend" as government's don't have friends, they have interests. What is best for America is not of anyone else's concern, nor is what is best for the rest of the world America's concern.
I invite you to consider that you share the planet we all live on with other nations - where does all of this world-hatred - an illness of the awareness, really - where does it come from? Have you all swallowed that jingoistic, nationalistic bile so completely? God, they have done a number on your minds.
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  #110 (permalink)  
Old 05-19-2005, 09:17 AM
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Default Three questions...

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Originally Posted by nawbut";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hansmoleman";p=&quot View Post
The US is often between a rock and a hard place between isolationism and being the world's policeman. I, for one, really don't care about the rest of the world one bit. I say that we should fight for our survival and nothing else. I think we should not give one dime to any nation unable or unwilling to ever pay us back. I believe that no nation could ever be our "friend" as government's don't have friends, they have interests. What is best for America is not of anyone else's concern, nor is what is best for the rest of the world America's concern.
I invite you to consider that you share the planet we all live on with other nations - where does all of this world-hatred - an illness of the awareness, really - where does it come from? Have you all swallowed that jingoistic, nationalistic bile so completely? God, they have done a number on your minds.
1) Why do you assume self-interest equals "world-hatred"?

2) Is it so unusual for a government to pursue an agenda that attempts to further its own interests?

3) Can you list examples of governments that have the interests of "all of this world" at heart?
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