It would be better to say that success is equality of power. However, money is about the most easily tangible, transferable, and recognizable form. It can lead to knowledge, and give you advantage at business. It can not make you a genius such as Rowling or Bill Gates, but those are few and far between.

Sure, you can list some small exceptions rather then rules. I mean, the sun could come up every single day for you, and you could expect to live in the morning according to probability, but then again, you could die in the night. I am not trying to make any universal laws here.

The thing is though, from an economical point of view, history has shown time and time again that unequality of power is very dangerous for a society. How did the Great Depression happen again?

Its easy to see the advantage of having more money then others. Are you suggesting it is easier to go from rags to riches then riches to rags?

That's the best you can do???

Oh, and by the way, power is always an opportunity, just has white always has black underneath. An opportunity may not necessarily equal power, however, as it may be disregarded. Money is always a form of power, a form of an opportunity, and a form of success in and of itself. The only flaw in my reasoning was to say that opportunity is success at the end, but then again, as money is a form of success in and of itself, and as I was speaking of money to begin with, the flaw has no point in disproving my theory.

Not much better. You are still ignoring the fact that talents, abilities and character are not distributed equally. Yet you want to treat people as if they were. Should a child-molesting crack addict with a 3rd grade education have as much "power" as a Nobel prize winner?

You are mistaking cause for effect. Wealth is a product of the mind, not the other way around.

I can list them all day. That's why they're not "small exceptions".

The New York Federal Reserve Bank tried to artificially manipulate the money supply. This is only an argument that the government having too much power is very dangerous for a society.

Not at all. You said that "opportunity equals success". Obviously, it does not.

That's odd... I was about to ask you the same question.

From the way Capitalism works, murders and plunderers usually end up getting exactly that, so I really don't know what your point is here. If the aforementioned person were given more opportunity from birth, they would run a smaller chance of ever becoming a child-molesting crack addict with a third grade education according to probability and a controlled variable.

So I am assuming that your education was completly free? Ever heard of TNSSAAFL?

The world is so large that a very long list is very small in comparison to the list in its entirety.

Wow, very limited explanation I must say. Why would the bank need to try and manipulate the money supply?

Right, I admitted this mistake. Oppurtunity in and of itself is gray. However, money in and of itself is not, and neither is a vote.

Why?

you are the only one who has contradicted himself. You stated earlier that China is exploited by capitalism, and now you say that has a growing economy because of capitalism. Interesting..

I could go out and save someone from death and make them my slave for the rest of my life in exchange, but does that make me honorable? If I help to support a criminal in the process of fueling my own greed, am I not myself a criminal?

It sounds like you are advocating equality of opportunity here - a concept I support. It is equality of outcomes that I have a problem with. However, if you are trying to say that society somehow "forces" someone to become a crack addict, or a child-molestor, or prevents them from having a better than elementray school education, you are simply wrong.

No, you are assuming that education equals wealth. It does not. Many with limited educations have become millionaires, and even billionaires. Thomas Edison and Richard Branson come to mind.

Wouldn't it be TNSTAAFL? Though why you can't just say "There is no such thing as a free lunch" is beyond me... In any case, I agree with the statement. Though I prefer Edison's quote: "Genius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent perspiration." Odd... he didn't even mention education.

But more than enough to disprove "a simple equation".

Exactly. There was no need. But that didn't stop them from trying, or the Stock Market form subsequently crashing. A little history...

http://www.fee.org/vnews.php?nid=4095&printable=Y
http://www.few.eur.nl/few/people/sma.../crash1929.htm
http://library.thinkquest.org/03oct/...depression.htm

...as I am sure they would welcome your sociological acumen. Please feel free to go and prove to us we are wrong.

American equality? The playing field may not always be level, but I can assure you this Commie man... we in America at least have a playing field.

If you can't make it in America...you're an idiot and should move to Cuba, they will surely welcome you. Misery loves company.

I guess since we have such a horrible social structure in America, is must be the real reason for this mass exodus we are experiencing. Right?

Hey, I tell you what. First of all, I would like to congratulate you on your nomination for Captain dipsh*t of the year award for calling me a Commie. Really, that's a good one. I don't know how many times I've said it on this board, but I don't consider myself anything whatsoever, I am neutral as far as political parties are concerned, as they are simply names of groups of individuals working together. However, what I love the most is that you call me a Commie and tell me to move to China when I just said I believe China's government to be a bunch of criminals and that they should have never been allowed any economic growth whatsoever until they get their crap together, but then again, it is just too tempting for Capitalists to go into a country and basically give tons of U.S. jobs over to the domain of a dictatorship. Why would you think I should think any different about Cuba? It must be your exceptional reading comprehension level, no? At the very most, you could say that I suggest the governments of certain Socialist countries are operated more efficiently then the government of the United States at the moment (Japan and Ireland), as it works into my theory that *gasp* a simple name of a political party does not gaurentee success. I'll tell you what. Let me go take a dump in a box, write Capitalism on top of it with a permanant marker, and sell it to you for a few bucks, and then you can worship the label all the better. Will not a rose by the same name smell just as sweet, or will it simply be the same old crap with a different smell? Oh, but I see, I treaded on your little "Capitalism" is the Church of God theory, eh? Heh heh. Saudi Arabia and Iran are both Capitalist, do you plan on moving to either?

Right...lots of people coming in from Mexico and nothing being done about it. Is that the mass exodus you are speaking about? Or is it the fact that foreign investors are investing tons of cheap money for them into the U.S. housing market and driving up housing costs through the roof? Is it the mass exodus of the U.S. dollar being linked with the Yuan in China? Or is it the mass exodus of jobs over to India, where you will soon find Apu taking your order over at McDonalds for two bucks an hour and sending your order back to U.S., only to have your order screwed up even worse then it was before?

Cleanskater do you think that Capitalism is turning into a virtual feudal system? You seemed to say something like that.

"..atleast we have a playing field." Classic.

Who is saying anyone is forced? I mean, you can go to elementary school in some of the inner city neighborhoods and walk home through gunfire every other day, which is virtually unheard of in the rest of the industrial world, but you can always just like...um...jump around the bullets. You gotta be really careful though, cuz if you're hit with one, and it causes major pain or something else of that nature for that rest of your life that severely debilitates you, you're screwed. Know why? No health insurance more then likely, and on top of that, you aren't going to be going anywhere fast on the excellent system of transit we call public. Its probably just as easy for you to just sell crack to the enlightened youth in America, who are provided excellent awareness with our conservative drug programs, even though you may end up going for prison for a longer period of time then any white collar worker, it may be worth it when you either do that or eat beans forever. I mean, you could be stuck making chairs in the prison population of America, which has exploded since the 1985 to a force of 2 million people, but heh? Who's counting?

I never said to create a welfare state. But seriously...when you are actually blocking free trade of medications from Canada and other such countries and claiming US health care to be superior...you really have to wonder about what the statistics really mean to these people. I mean, they can ship the jobs out with a tax break, but they can't ship the cheap products back in at a discount. That is just the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

And all my folks down at Martin Luther King street are just climbing the ladder of social equality so quickly. They are all running into the excellant public libraries and enjoying the joys of self-made discipline. Most Americans can barely even go on a diet these days. Our school systems are some of the worst in the industrialized world.

I believe Edison went to college even though he surpassed his masters and went further then anyone else had gone before. Ben Franklin is probably your best example of a self made man, but then again, Ben Franklin also advocated a lot of development of libraries and infrastructure, which have been increasingly lacking on the US agenda, and he hated the national debt and war in general. My God! It's a highway bill...it might top 300 billion. Cut it to fund the War in Iraq! Our deficit STILL goes a trillion in the hole every two years. Seriously, I'm not even a leftist, but if anyone wants to argue with me on the basis of either Democrat or Republican, I find it much, much easier to argue the left then the right. I mean, to tell you the truth, Id be Socialist if I believed in big taxes, but they aren't even necessary when you look at all the waste from Capitalism in America today. We'll raise taxes from our war debts in Iraq and the Cold War faster then anything Social Security is going to come up with anytime soon. I mean, Socialism isn't my supreme philosophy whatsoever, but in comparison to unchecked Capitalism? I'll pick Socialism anyday.

Actually...this doesn't disprove anything, even in regards to my mistake. You were trying to prove that rags to riches is easier to come by then riches to rags. I'd love to see an in-depth sociological study on that one.

Yup, it was all the Federal Reserve's fault. See, but why would a bank just print money for no reason? Oh, I C. They wanted to expand the economy to quick by printing funny money that did not even exist. That's a major problem with Capitalism--creating money out of thin air and using it to further the gap in wealth. Who do you think is going to be paying off all the national debt the right has come up with?