I am speaking of education in general, and in general, we could even help self motivated people more then we could without even increasing the tax system. We already spend an almost equal amount as Socialist coutries per capita, but the text books and teachers are just crappy here due to the way the system operates. That's all I've ever been trying to say, but it is funny, because you seem to be promoting ignorance here. I never said throwing money at the problem will solve it, or that calling ourselves "Socialist" will solve it, however, most Socialist countries DO have better education systems by default, including the Soviet Union, which spent a VERY small amount of money relative to the United States on education! Perhaps they are more efficient as they were forced to be and figured out that *gasp* you don't even need that much money in the first place! Why? Education is one thing that should be centralized in most respects. Why do we need to creat 50 different textbooks every year to teach basic addition when we are paying a teacher $30,000 plus benefits? Why? Because you have three major book publishers that are private, and that LOBBY the government, the Democrats especially, as they are the primary pushers. Even so, the Republican party does not try to be efficient, as education may make people leave religion and detract from their politcal base, and because they also make money off the aforementioned lobbyists. It is absurd. Books are already regulated and monitored by the government as to the material that can be put in them in the first place, so the argument that it creates a state run society is ludicrous at best. It is simply efficient. How would the government benefit by teaching flawed math theorems? At best, only history books should be allowed to be decentralized and deregulated. Even self motivated people could benefit--every library should have the best textbooks on the shelf--have you ever gone to a library and walked into the textbook section? I myself have, and I live in a pretty large city.The books were simply not on that great of a standard, and there were relativly few in comparison to the amount of DVDs and entertainment most libraries today make...so it creates a problem for self-motivated people such as myself as well.

This is why I voted for Nader...only guy with guts enough to tell it how it is.
The elite 1%.

Not if you put words in my mouth. I never even said Socialism was good in general, I openly said I was not Socialist, and that the reason Switzerland and Japan do good is not because they are Socialist necessarily, but because they are run efficiently. Then again, it could be reversed casuality. Socialism is a brand of rhetoric that works best with intellectuals, as the political theory is full of linguistics, and even prose at times. In the end, however, Socialsim, Capitalism, etc. are all the same entity--people.

Yeah, that is a very great idea. Most Capitalists (which are simply people) are idiots and don't put their money where their mouth is. If you are selling lots of homes for very expensive sums, you don't really think about the interconnection of banks on the other end LOANING the money out, which makes their reserve ratios small. When too much money is floating around up in the upper echelons of society, they mostly go into government bonds and stock, not in the bank where they will gain 2% interest and raise reserve ratios. Ding dong! Anyone home? Take an economics class and get back with me....

If anyone wonders why I write so much...just practicing. Ive said this before to some people, but I'm actually writing a book at the time and I try and get opposing arguiments to make it stronger...I think I have enough material now for what I am to write. I did think this before though and Savior proved me wrong, which is why I must take the time to personally thank Sadistic more then anyone else on this site for giving me my material....and actually...I plan to personally thank you on the cover sheet if it is ever published...these forums are a good place to learn dialectics...and to learn more about yourself by seeing the views of your enemy, as your style and truth will evolve with there own, which means that in your destruciton, you find a greater rebirth and creation, and within your downfall, you find your salvation if you are strong enough. Anyhow, wether you believe it or not Savior...this is actually my last post...at least for a long while, but thank you again for sparring so long. No one else ever really attempted it nearly as much as you, so I give you tons of props. I know you are probably thinking right now of a remark to bait me to come back and argue still, which is why you have more heart and passion when it comes to this then anyone else so anyhow...my enemies are my greatest friends in disguise.

Oh uh...Merlin...sorry I can not continue our argument further...you seem to have a lot of potential...which is why I had to egg you on a little bit...good arguments, well thought through...and sources...wish I would have gotten into things with you earlier.

Switzerland is a peaceful, prosperous, and stable modern market economy with low unemployment, a highly skilled labor force, and a per capita GDP larger than that of the big Western European economies. The Swiss in recent years have brought their economic practices largely into conformity with the EU's to enhance their international competitiveness. Switzerland remains a safe haven for investors, because it has maintained a degree of bank secrecy and has kept up the franc's long-term external value. Reflecting the anemic economic conditions of Europe, GDP growth dropped in 2001 to about 0.8%, to 0.2% in 2002, and to -0.3% in 2003, with a small rise to 1.8% in 2004. Even so, unemployment has remained at less than half the EU average.

These are Switzerlands political parties, not a true socialist nation by any means;
Green Party (Grune Partei der Schweiz or Grune, Parti Ecologiste Suisse or Les Verts, Partito Ecologista Svizzero or I Verdi, Partida Ecologica Svizra or La Verda) [Ruth GENNER]; Christian Democratic People's Party (Christichdemokratische Volkspartei der Schweiz or CVP, Parti Democrate-Chretien Suisse or PDC, Partito Democratico-Cristiano Popolare Svizzero or PDC, Partida Cristiandemocratica dalla Svizra or PCD) [Doris LEUTHARD, president]; Radical Free Democratic Party (Freisinnig-Demokratische Partei der Schweiz or FDP, Parti Radical-Democratique Suisse or PRD, Partitio Liberal-Radicale Svizzero or PLR) [Marianne KLEINER-SCHLAEPFER, president]; Social Democratic Party (Sozialdemokratische Partei der Schweiz or SPS, Parti Socialist Suisse or PSS, Partito Socialista Svizzero or PSS, Partida Socialdemocratica de la Svizra or PSS) [Hans-Juerg FEHR, president]; Swiss People's Party (Schweizerische Volkspartei or SVP, Union Democratique du Centre or UDC, Unione Democratica de Centro or UDC, Uniun Democratica dal Center or UDC) [Ueli MAURER, president]; and other minor parties

Saddam is gone. A democracy is in his place. The rest is just clean up. It is now a war of attrition, and we have WAY more resources than the other side has.

People will be predicting an overthrow by insurgents indefinitely, but those are the facts.

Yes. Because we can.

That was kind of my point. The war was expensive, and we lost more American lives, because we chose to pull punches. Carpet bombing would have been easier and cheaper. We chose not to do that.

You were complaining about the cost and loss of American life. Those are the reasosn for the cost and loss of American life. Morality carries a price.

I doubt that. But if the argument is "does money make a difference", the obvious answer is yes. Throwing money at a problem can work, at least in this case.

Very true, not one party has the label "Socialist" in it. The Nazi party in Germany, however, did, and yet, they were about as far right as you can get. Kinda tells you something about names, eh? I'll tell you what though--when I can get away with proclaiming universal health care, a reduction of the military by two-thirds, an enormous increase in educational standards, and a cut of all energy use in the US while making public transportation phenomenal without being called a Socialist, I will be very happy. Ever watch FoxNews opinion segments? If you even mention any country in Europe as being something to achieve, you are a Socialist.

Not trying to post anything else...just clarifying a key point.
However, it is interesting to note that the only political party in the US to even proclaim rhetoric that fits anything close to Switzerlands system is SPUSA, or maybe Ralph Nader....who knows though, that's just talk...SPUSA could be a bunch of hypocritical comie bastards. lol. You can't tell by surface appearences, names, or rhetoric. If there is one thing I'd like to leave anyone with, it is that simple fact.

...forget one very important part in your summary of America. Can you imagine what dictatorial country would be controlling all things on planet earth if it wasn't for America? How would you like to be under China's control, how about Russia? Could you imagine the likes of the French defending this planet, there isn't enough appeasement on this planet that would work, because France is the king of appeasement. You and many like you believe we live in this wonderful world with everyone holding hands and singing Kum Ba Ya, there has never been and unfortunately never will be a utopia like that. Humans have always been and always will be very evil, as sad as that is.

Also; Where did you conceive the idea that the Nazi's were right wing or left wing? Murdering dictator, absolutely.

Oh so now I'm a hippie eh? Lmao. I'm actually a utilitarian and an economics major, I could care less about butterflies and dancing and singing. I take things from a scientific perspective, and viola, there you have it. Conserving energy and resources is smart science, and smart economics. There is nothing artistic about it. Let me think...I could pay for a Hummer H2 and pay 70 bucks every time I fill up because it is a Veblen good and marketed heavily, or I could buy a nice Porsche on the other end of the spectrum and only pay 40 bucks to fill up the tank. Really, you fill up the tank four times a month, and suddenly, you have a savings of 800 dollars a year, and you also have a much faster car that will get you more looks as Hummers are so common now its a joke.

Or, better yet, I could get rid of all this symbolic interactionist theory, play it really smart, and go out and buy a Prius, get the hackers kit, plug it into my wall at night and get 140mpg with cheap power company electricity rates, and spend less on the car to start with, and put ALL the extra money I save on the car in and of itself, plus 1,600 dollars a year in gas in bonds and other forms of investment, instead of having to pull out a second mortage with the bankruptcy rates the way they are today. That's the problem with rich people, they literally throw their money away and it screws up the people who are actually thinking of efficiency. That's nationalism to throw a sticker up on your SUV? I'll pass.

Here we are again, another Capitain dip@#$&.
It's all good, I don't mind Nazis such as yourself as far as people are concerned...if I hate them, I turn into the same beast that they are. Even so, they are just bad for the economy, and if I need to defend myself and my country from stupidity and ignorance, I will do so. Sure, war works for about five months in the short term, but in the end, you have even more devastation then you did before. Go read some John Stuart Mill on a stable state run economy--war is only necessary when it is real defense, and when the result will be more beneficial then the cost. If you can prove that Iraq was ever that, I'm all ears. We've spent close to 200 billion with the money we have, PLUS the money they won't tell you about as it is in the red, i.e. the DEBT. It might raise interest rates for a time with all this borrowing, but its all for shallow nothingness and low production.

At least the Swiss and Luxemburg are smart in not only banking, but in energy conservation and universal health care. Health care is good for everyone, I don't get this Republican stance, just dumb. GE and Ford both have health care issues and its bringing their stock down, as are high gas prices. Ill tell you what Im gonna do. I'm gonna buy lots of food storage and put my money into a stable form once I'm rich, as I will be going into business law on top of it. When a depression hits, I'll have hit the jackpot. You'll liquidate your expensive furniture for a piece of bread, and my money will shkyrocket. I'll come out way richer then I was before, just because I covered the basics and kept it real.

The Nazi's were about as far right as you can get??? Please explain this perplexing statement for everyone!

The Nazis were a part of the political right as they a. didn't like homosexuals. b. promoted Hitler's form of God above everyone else's, c. spent tons of money on warfare and military. I'd never say Bush is anything like Hitler...he is simply a very, very watered down and limited version. heh heh. I mean, Clinton and Europe are simply a watered down version of Stalin. I'm not saying the left is any better...personally, I listen to both sides and could care less about right or left, I'm politically ambidextrous to what's real.

All you small business owners, how you liking the new bankruptcy laws?
I'm lovin them...right when I choose my major. Lmao.

Let it burn for all I care.

"We think we can protect the Syrian border when we can't even protect our own border from Mexico?" --Michael Savage (smartest conservative I've ever heard on mainstream medium...funny too I may add)