Tell me a nation with a very small, rather powerless but efficient government and I will probably grant you that it is a conservative one....

If you take the racism out, how much different was Hitler from Stalin? While Hitler may have promoted God, he also promoted a lot of paganism.

I actually agree with you on this...I'm more of an anarchist in theory...but at the same time, privite companies can be just as large, powerful, and inefficient. For instance, Verizon has blocked a lot of local governments from creating high speed city wide wireless networks in the past, and Cox communications has also made things difficult for certain local governments that wish to install super high speed fiber optic lines undergound, which would allow people to get 20 meg a second download speeds for like 15 bucks a month (both lobby and have even threatened lawsuits saying the government is "unfair" competition). That's just stupid. They could compete and put out an even better product, but they don't want to waste the money. That's all it is. As if Verizon will go under anytime soon.

Bronco, I don't think the insurgents will stop if we just pick up and leave...but what I'm telling you is simple. Iraq was not ready for Democracy, and it does not matter how many insurgents they kill, because in the end, they simply will continue flooding across both borders. Tons of Iraqi civilians have died in the past week, and this is months after the elections. Major figures are taken out, generals, mayors, etc. The region is VERY, VERY unstable, and our all volunteer military is quickly being worn out, the army is having recruiting shortages, etc. You remember how Vietnam built up. First we had "advisors" and suddenly, we have a full blown need for a draft. I'm not saying we will have a draft, as it is not politically feasable, but if we don't, eventually, the insurgents are going to win out. No one had any idea there would be this much instability in Iraq, just as no one took the time to consider the fact that Vietnam would be a living hell. Iraqis are going to get restless soon enough, and it really doesn't matter if we stay there or lot, as we can only be there for so long. I'm not with Kerry on that one...I was with Nader. Get us the hell out of there now and start paying off the deficit so China doesn't get us by the balls.

If the Shiites can't get their own crap together after three freaking years of having an enormous army standing by them, as well as half a trillion dollars in aid WHILE they outnumber the insurgents three to one, really, I hate to say it, but the insurgents DESERVE to rule the country. If they are simply that much smarter, they deserve it. That's the thing though...they will not ever rule the country. They will just keep on making terror wether we are there or not, but they will never overthrow the new government, and if we weren't there, Shiites would be fighting THEIR own battle. How much support did we get from South Vietnam? That's laughable....

The Insurgents would stop if we left Iraq. If someone invaded and ravaged our nation like America has done to Iraq than there would be people out there pulling guerilla warfare like the Iraqis are doing. There freedom fighters but because were fighting them they automatically become insurgents. The same situation happened during the American Revolution and the Vietnam War; someone defends their country and they become a freedom fighter to their people but they also become an insurgent to the opposing forces. The facts are comrades is that whether we like it or not the Iraqis are perfectly justified in defending their lands from invaders.

__________________
“Capitalism cannot reform itself; it is doomed to self-destruction. No universal selfishness can bring social good to all.” —Dr. W.E.B. Du Bois

Naw...I don't consider them freedom fighters at all..they are the minority for one, and secondly, they intentionally kill women and children. Thirdly, a lot of these so called freedom fighters are not even Iraqis! They are International terrorists in some crazy Islamic fundamentalist jihad. If the US left, there would still be problems, as they see the elections as fraudulent...they might calm down a little bit, but it wouldn't be over. The Shiites aren't the ones fighting the US, and the Sunnis aren't even targeting US troops as much as the Iraqi government in place. Even so, it's like I've been saying, France just gave the US weapons and provided naval support. They sure as hell didn't fight the British for us. Even that drove their economy to shambles though. But if we could fight the Soviet Union by supplying Bin Laden for cheap, why can't we do the same here?

Just goes to show...it takes a man to do a man's job (protect an oil field).

Just reading through the arguements been point forward here.
Cleanskater I very impressed by you arguements, and frankly I have to agree with you on many of the points.

I've also noticed that all the conservatives on this site have all suddenly started to call Bush "not a real conservative". Sorry but he is. A true conservative.
The voters of the US seem to disagree with you.

__________________
"Better to die on you feet than live on your knees" - Emilio Zapata

There only saying this because he's losing popularity. I guarantee that the Republicans will lose in 2008. VOTE SOCIALIST PARTY 2008! VOTE COMMUNIST PARTY 2008!

__________________
“Capitalism cannot reform itself; it is doomed to self-destruction. No universal selfishness can bring social good to all.” —Dr. W.E.B. Du Bois

I can't see that happening.

__________________
"Better to die on you feet than live on your knees" - Emilio Zapata

Thats because the Republicans and Democrats have done everything possible to close out all other parties. Also the FBI's witchhunts for communists in the 50s has successfully brainwashed peoples concept of socialism.

__________________
“Capitalism cannot reform itself; it is doomed to self-destruction. No universal selfishness can bring social good to all.” —Dr. W.E.B. Du Bois