There is currently about half dozen threads, which has some kind confontration between U.S and E.U..

I would like to raise some points to discuss and perhaps accept, if we can reach some kind of agreement about these..

1. The Western Europe is pretty much as developed as U.S. With the development I mean social, cultural and technological development, which we usually use to rank nations to well - developed and developing..

This has importance in accepting equality commonly (~ the other is not inferior or better another) and making it possible to treat each other as equal partners with proper respect..

Still, there is likely one things where one of the units has advantage and it is the govermental system.. The E.U. as a state is still developing and it forms quite complex and less functional body..

2. There are differences, but these differences are mostly value differences. Like I have explained before, the European countries has accepted to sacrifices in the economic areas as an exchange for more free time or social programs..

Both systems has their benefits and disadvatages.. The question about which system is better, is very relative and depends mostly of the viewer's eye.. So ~ what things the person value..

In the U.S. the benefits might be economic fairness (you get what you deserve) and individual liberty.. In the E.U. the values could be in social well-being, security and happiness..

3. Rather than searching flaws of the other system in nationalistic fever, it would be more fruitful to search flaws in one's own system.. In this way, one could actually fix something.. And even better, one could fix something that has some value in one's immediate environment..

Just trying to maintain good cross-Atlantic relations

- BtD

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"Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows."
[George Orwell, 1984]

Its always about who has the bigger penis. Unfortunately, the African countries are already ahead of all of us on that.

Our founding fathers could beat your founding fathers!

- BtD

__________________
"Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows."
[George Orwell, 1984]

Its because Europe's socialism is beating America's capitalism. I'm American and a tip to the U.S.
1. Improve education system like China has.
2. Mandatory holidays like France.
3. Mind your own buisness like Canada.
4. Free social security like the E.U.
5. New flag like Vietnam.

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“Capitalism cannot reform itself; it is doomed to self-destruction. No universal selfishness can bring social good to all.” —Dr. W.E.B. Du Bois

How exactly is Europe's socialism beating America's capitalism???

America has the largest economy in the world (As indicated by total GDP), which dwarfs Europe's. In fact, not only has America's economy been growing even in recent years while Europe's has stagnated, the per capita GDP of every state in the US is higher than any European country, with the exception of Luxembourg... if that doesn't indicate how Europe's welfare state policies don't work and how America's policy does... I don't know what would convince you.

Personally, I like European culture. I am especially fond of British culture, and I have quite a few friends who are British.

I just don't like Europe's politics. I don't see it (the EU) as being very democratic or efficient. If you think that it works for you, fine, but I'm tired about hearing how evil America and how great Europe is because it's simply not true.

Plus, I would like to hear more about how much money (American tax dollars I might add) has gone into rebuilding Europe over the years. More importantly, I almost never hear about the hundreds of thousands of Americans who sacrificed their lives to liberate Europe during two wars that were not fought on our own shores.

Basically, it's really easy to dislike people who your country has sacrificed so much for that just spit in your face in return....

Europeans often seem to make the mistake of thinking that they are our equals. They really arent in any way that matters.

Which is a big deal. We should just get along with them because they are developed and white? Give me a break.

The main source of conflict is their continual criticism of our efforts when they really dont have any better ideas. They want to play nice with despotic governments. We dont. Wanting to recognize despots as equals is the same thing as giving consent to what they do. It's wrong.

Oh...but it was so very long ago. Those sacrifices only count for 10 or 20 years. Dont you know ANYthing?

That's why there's so many US vs EU threads.

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What's this i hear bed? Word has it you and Pam are sleeping together.

They're the real model of economic efficiency that we should copy any idea they have. Maybe if we're lucky we can take some of their ideas and we too can experience an economy perpetually in the doldrums along with the benefit of worker's strikes which shut down everything from airports to garbage collection. What an economic paradise.

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All you need to know about the energy crisis:
ANWR Exploration Republicans: 91% Supported. Democrats: 86% Opposed.
Coal-to-liquid R's: 90% YES. D's: 78% NO.
Oil Shale Exploration R's: 90% YES. D's: 86% NO.
Outer Continental Shelf Exploration R's: 81% YES. D's: 83% NO.
Increased Refinery Capacity R's: 97% YES. D's: 96% NO

SUMMARY: 91% of House Republicans have historically voted to increase the production of America’s own oil and gas. 86% of House Democrats have historically voted against.

The EU is still developing and far from ready..

Well, I have to admid that I feel grattitude towards U.S. This, despite that the allied weren't ready to help Finland in any meaningful way and Finland didn't receive a penny from Marshall aid.. If U.S hadn't involved, the continent Europe would had been consumed either by Nazis or Communists.. In this case the democratic north (Finland, Sweden) would had very little hope to survive, even if Finland had defended succesfully against Soviet Union..

There is and has been anti-American feelings in Europe. The last wave of anti-Americanism was caused by the Iraq War. It was likely caused by the way European media handled the U.S.'s justification (like valid criticism) for the war, and was partly justified..

Still, I believe that if you hunt any Western European, push him against wall and demand answers, he/she will admid that he feels grattitude towards U.S for the WW2.. I do, and I welcome other Europeans to do the same..

Still to bring some balance to the picture, even if U.S. did join WW2 purely for altruistic and morally high reasons, it also brought U.S some major benefits in the areas of power.. It prevented the creation of either Nazi empire or extended Soviet Union.. In this case it would had faced the extended totalitarian regime without it's European allies (likely including Britain)..

And just to remind, if we look backwards in the history enough, we do notice that French did fought for the U.S during it's war for independence.. It happened long time ago, but the question is - are you willing to admid grattitude towards the French for it?

- BtD

__________________
"Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows."
[George Orwell, 1984]