I'm very curious what people consider the definition of a racist comment or person. I find the dictionary explanation, frankly, useless, because at the end of the day people speak however they want to.

Let me say before hand. I dont hate Jews or blacks or any other sort. I have plenty of friends of all creeds and colors. (Oh and I'm a Jew)

But, here are two statements I wholeheartedly believe in.

1. "Jews and Vietnamise are harder workers than other whites, blacks, and hispanics."

2. "Blacks and hispanics are lazier than whites and asians (indian, vietnamise, chinese, etc...)

Now, a number of follow up questions.

Would you consider me a bad man?

Are these comments racist?

Am I racist? Continuing this, what is your defitinion of racist?

Now, I don't think these are racist comments.
Why?
1. Because I say them with no malice or malevelence?
2. I do not hate the people.
3. And, importantly, I don't think these are genetic traits. I think they are cultural.

Thats the tipper for me. I don't look at them as comments about a race. I comment on their culture. And yes, Jews, generally speaking, are differnet from none Jews (goyim) in certain respects. There are certain differences if one takes the time to notice. I believe these are cultural.

Whats your take on my thinking?

P.S. Sorry if I insulted anyone. I don't mean to.

Generalizing one race as being harder working then another is racist. You are basing that one the very very very very very small fraction of each races population you know or have observed.

Judging ones culture does not make unracist as culture is apart of race.

Having said that, I do understand where youre coming from but I'd have to say immigrants work harder then non-immigrants because even a minimum wage job in north america is usually a better standard of living where they came from.

First of all, this belongs in the Race Relations forum, but I will leave it here overnight to let interested people find it.

Yes, it's racist. You've probably come to these conclusions from your own experience. If every left-handed person you met was dumb as a stump, you'd come to the conclusion that they all are. But, everybody does this. The only thing you need to do is keep an open mind when you meet someone. Consider them all the exception to the rule until you get to know them. Judge the individual, not the race etc. I think blacks do themselves a disservice when they refer to "my culture" or "my people." Everyone needs to think in terms of individuals, IMO.

The first time I heard the term "jewing down" (haggling), I had no idea it was connected to Jews. I probably used that term dozens of times with who knows within earshot before I found out that it was actually a derogatory term. I just thought why is it derogatory? I think it's a compliment. So I asked a Jew. She didn't have an explanation, but she didn't like it when people used the term. I'm careful where I say it now. My point is that even when you consider a stereotypical statement a compliment, many people will consider it racist.

I know a lot of Mexicans. They joke about it and hardly take offense to anything once you get to know them. I wouldn't pick on a stranger though, just in case. I don't know many lazy ones, either.

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"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." ~Ronald Reagan

[quote]The problem is people don't speak however they want to. If a person makes a comment someone else doesn't like they complain and it is deemed politically incorrect. Many feelings are stifled because of this.

I don't hate anyone either but that really isn't the point is it? The point is that based on your every day life and your experiences you have formed opinions. Opinions can be right or wrong. So you may want to deal in facts over all instead of your limited experience.

You can believe in whatever you want but this particular statement should be prefaced with "in your experience". Why? because this is not based on any fact, only on your experience. In my experience, there are lazy white people and hard working white people. There are lazy black people and hard working black people, etc.

No offense but this statement is just ridiculous. I bet if you took these and analyzed them per capita, you would find that the percentage of lazy people is about the same as the other no matter what the race is.

I don't think you are a bad man, I just think you should do more research before you state your opinions.

You need to answer this question for yourself. However, the definition I found in my speech book is this: "The notion that one's own ethnic stock is superior." - The fact that you stated you are a Jew may imply that you are but that is not for me to say. Search your own conscience and find your answer.

I don't think any of these traits are cultural as much as they are what is taught when one is a child. Parents have the most influence on what type of person their child is going to be, teachers are second. Of course their are exceptions but for the most part parents are the ones who instill core values, such as work ethic, in their children.

I think you should maybe look deeper at why you think these things and maybe you will see that someone or something in your life experiences have helped you to come to these conclusions. I would do a little soul searching and I have and I found the old saying, "I ain't no better than anyone else and there ain't anyone better than me".
I will define myself by my own actions.

I wasn't insulted but then again I am in one of your favored groups.
I think this is a good topic though, and I really hope it isn't moved because this gives everyone a chance to look at their own feelings and why they feel that way and this section will give this topic more exposure.

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Those who think they know everything, usually know the least.

Short answer: Yes.

Because your criteria is race. If your criteria is culture ("Vietnamese are harder working than Americans" for example) then no, it isnt racist.

There is no one black culture. There is no one white culture. There is no one asian culture...yet you are using these in your example. Thats what makes them racist.

Hate and malice are irrelevant. You can still be racist even with benign intentions.

..I will not label you "racist" until I see the context in which you are making this statement and what experiences you are basing this on.

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"Only a fool tests the depth of the water with both feet."

I agree with the Sadistic One!

The comments are rascist; you? I dont know..

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"A man's work is nothing but this slow trek to rediscover, through the detours of art, those two or three great and simple images in whose presence his heart first opened."

I agree with most of the posters here. Here's an example to consider.

Men are, on average, taller than women. It is not bias to note that.

Saying "women are short" or "men are tall" shades into bias because you're taking an average tendency and applying it to the entire group, even though there are tall women and short men.

Saying "because women are short, they shouldn't be allowed to play basketball" goes all the way into discrimination, because you're taking an average tendency and using it to constrain the options of the entire group.

Just remember that every group is made up of individuals. You certainly don't think all Jews are representative of you. I don't think all white males are representative of me. It is only logical to show the same courtesy to other groups.

Frankly, the best way to do so is to not think of them as a group, but as individuals. After all, every person is a member of multiple groups. I'm an ex-military upper-middle-class college-educated white American married male homeowning parent of German, English and Scottish ancestry. How can you assume that the "white" group is the defining one?

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Man up.

I've done a little soul searching. I came to the conclusion that I am more likely to make knee-jerk assumptions based on other factors.

A guy who wears his pants so low that he has to walk with one finger hooked in his belt loop to keep them from falling down - very stupid.

A guy who wears chains, a blue mohawk, has a pierced nose and eyebrow wants me to think he's a weirdo, I oblige him. (He's my nephew, BTW.)

Here, in Texas, in June, someone wearing cutoffs, T-shirt, and flip-flops is normal unless it's a funeral (me). In other places, people might come to a different conclusion.

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"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." ~Ronald Reagan

Hmm.. These are some difficult questions.. I have actually given some thought for these issues before and I would like to share my opinions..

First, I would like to underline the fact that I prefer the objective and rational approach.. Some of the things I'm willing to represent my raise some contradicting emotions, but I would ask you to still consider my thoughts.. Critic is allowed and gradly received..

So here comes the bomb: a) I believe that different genetical groups have differences in their genetical composition. b) And by difference I mean statistical differences so in which scale different genes occurs in the population.. c) And I believe these differences concerns not only the genes determining the physical fenotype, but also the genes defining the mental abilities and personality.

The reasoning for these differences is found of the evolution theory. The factors causing differences between populations are simply 1) normal random variation 2) different evolutionary history and 3) different evolutionary environment.

Still I have also noticed the following: the individual variasions tend to be much bigger than the variation between different ethnical/racial groups. This supports the belief that individual cannot be judged by his/her ethnic group. The prediction value given by the racial profile is at best - bad. This of course conserning only the mental abilities. Some physical genetic differences - such as skin color - tend to have much bigger ethnical variation than individual variation.

Still - in the bottom line - it is always best to judge a person as an individual rather than as a member of some genetic group. When judging by the genetic group, we will gain - at best - vague probabilities, but when judging by the individual itself - we can judge the individual as he/she really is.

This last belief is supported by 1) reasoning 2) observations of reality and also 3) the notification, that the evolutionary environment for mental abilities has been similar for all the ethnical groups. I believe that the dominating factor of the human's evolutionary environment is the human itself and the society humans form. The demands for intelligence and the mental abilities set by the social environment are easily higher than any demands that the physical environment could ever make.


Now - I suppose - I have to repeat Printer's question. Are these beliefs racist? And even if they are racist (depending how it is defined), are these beliefs something to condemn?

In my own mind this is the reality as I have observed it. If this brings me to bad company (with EUP and fellows) - well - I don't really care. I believe that we have to be humble in front of the reality, and accept the reality as it is.

And after all - in the bottom line - this is not so radical idea. Or is it?

- BtD

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"Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows."
[George Orwell, 1984]