i havent posted in awhile cuz frankly, these right wingers on here are just so incredible stupid and two faced it isn't even funny, and this is a perfect example.

wtf?????????? ok. so the war in iraq is over. these people we are fighting in iraq (al-qaeda) are simply criminals. there is no war. so why the @#$@#$ do we call fighting al-qaida the "war on terror" one moment, and then when it is not politically feasable, we drop it???

be consistent. if bin laden gets some guys to fly some planes into an american building and kills 2700 people, it is an act of war. and yet, we do not consider well over that amount of iraqis dying due to terrorist attacks in iraq the same act of war??? why??? because they are iraqis??? because it shows this administration has a failed policy????

thought so. the attacks in spain and england were simply "criminal" acts as well.

didn't you guys know that??? hahahaha. soooooooo @#$@#$@# stupid.

i for one would like us to believe they are simply criminals.

criminals don't drive the debt 500 billion more into the hole every year.

criminals don't require airstrikes from 50 million dollar planes.

if these are simply criminals, why use the ARMY????????? why not just call in the local Baghdad police department??? Why not call in the IRaqi army??? you make it seem like they are a cakewalk. hahaha.

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that the war on terror and the war on Iraq were the same thing. They were not.

Saddam's government was deposed. The new government controls the Iraqi military now, and the insurgents are going against the laws of the land. That is what makes them criminals.

No one has been able to explain to me how they are different from Timothy McVeigh.

Because the deaths in one attack were deliberate. In the other, they are not. Thats why.

The administration's policy has not failed. Saddam and his sympathizers no longer control Iraq. We won.

Yes. If they are found, they will be tried and convicted according to English/Spanish law. Like any other criminal.

Because Iraqi's policy force is not yet equipped and trained to deal with them. The same thing happens here in the US...if local law enforcement cant handle criminal activity, the national guard is called in as back up.

At the moment there is no local Baghdad PD. We are in the process of creating it. That is why we are there...to reinforce their police/military until they can fend for themselves.

So Treat2 who opposes the will of the masses and wants a draft makes him a criminal? The USA opposed the will of the masses by invading does that make them criminals?

__________________
It is more patriotic when you don't ask questions

Not unless he tries to do so by force.

The will of which masses?

Oh really? That's not what was being sold when we first invaded. wmds, the whole entire "we don't need a mushroom cloud as a smoking gun" thingy, etc. they put the war in iraq and terror as one and the same, and if you watch fox news at all, you would remember that they had the war on terror logo up whenever there was news about iraq. hahaha. but maybe you weren't paying attention. it was not until no wmds were found that a "bait and switch" occured, which is interesting, cuz now it really IS a war on terror. hahahaha.

who do you think IS actually doing these bombings and such TODAY? even though iraq was unofficially not about terror to begin with, it IS definitly about terror today. who do you think conducts these bombings? you simply call them criminals, but they are the same forces that bombed the WTC! they were not present in Iraq before, but they are now as Saddam is gone, thanks to the US. well done. you've just created a big terror magnet in the middle of the middle east, congratulations.

timothy mcveigh wasn't an ideological faction made up of tens of thousands of poeple. and Al-Qauda itself isn't the only force in Iraq. Mcveigh wasn't 25% of the @#$@#$#@ population.

this isn't rocket science jo jo.

these terrorists aren't deliberatly killing people? what are they doing then? i can see it now.

"oops, i ACCIDENTLY blew myself up in a crowd of people. I just woke up one morning, found a bomb strapped to my @#$@# body, or in my car, and then it just like moved on its own, right in the middle of police recruits, military targets, or massive crowds at a gas station (like this week)."

are you @#$@#$ serious, or are you bullsh@%ing me?

more people have died SINCE Saddam was gone then when he was in power. so...if that is your definition of victory, we can obviously just take everything you say and flip it to make it it's opposite, as you are so A@#backwards it is beyond hillarious.

that's odd considering both countries were in this WAR. You don't see countries that are not in this WAR being bombed. Kinda coincidental, no?

hahahaha. iraq's police force is not equipped to deal with simple criminals, and yet, they are validated as a country??? the insurgents are more organized and can defeat them, and yet, IRAQ is supposedly an "organized and capable country??" hahahahaha. if the united states ever needed 150,000+ foreign troops in order to deal with "criminals" you can be sure we would be in a civil war of some sort. lmfao.

they don't even have a police department yet? bwahahahaha. how long have you guys been there????

Yes, really:

So far no one has been able to produce a quote where he says the opposite. Let me know when you find one. Is it possibile that you are projecting?

Of course it is...that is why we are installing a democracy. We dont't want Iraq to be another friendly base for terrorists.

Just because Saddam was not directly connected to 911 doesnt mean he was not friendly to terrorists.

The people that bombed the WTC are not criminals in your opinion?

The difference being that we have control of this one. They no longer have a dictator friendly to them in control of things.

They represent a tiny fraction of Iraq's population. Like McVeigh, they have ideological differences with the government. That doesnt mean they represent the Iraqi masses, which is what you people always like to imply.

What is your evidence that these people represent 25% of the population?

I agree. Rocket science has actual proof to back it up.

I assumed by "terrorists" you were referring to American troops, whcih is how you people usually refer to them. As an occupational force.

Prove it. Amnesty Internation estimates are in the half a million range as far as how many people Saddam killed while in power...it is probably a lot more than that.

Their motives are irrelevant. They are criminals either way.

Yeah, pretty much. Not sure why that is a shock to you. Nations with crappy police forces should not have their sovereignty recognized...is that your position?

Well, by your definition, Timothy McVeigh = a "civil war". You have an awfully broad definition of "civil war".

A couple years. How long do you believe it should take to establish a military and Police Force from scratch?

It took Japan and Germany a lot longer than that.

Projecting? Hahaha. where did I say bush claimed they had connections to sept. 11th? i never even said that! is that how you "win" arguments? you simply put bull@#$@# in their mouth that they never said? i said that the administration sold this war as a generalized war on terror, and that iraq could supply terrorists with weapons of mass destruction, which, i may add, is MUCH worse in causing fear then saying saddam was simply behind sept. 11th. a quick google can find the truth for a hapless nitwit such as yourself.

From USAtoday.

""There was a risk, a real risk, that Saddam Hussein would pass weapons or materials or information to terrorist networks," the president said in a speech in Wilkes Barre, Pa. "In the world after Sept. 11, that was a risk we could not afford to take."

there were no links to al-quada in general, and iraq was not planning on making weapons. this war has only made generalized terror more prominent worldwide! look at the bombings in Iraq, Spain, and England now. congratualations, you have officially brought the entire free world into the same condition israel is in. that's good for them though, its the reason they've lobbied the freaking crap out of your government for so long!

funny you say "installING" you use a present progressive, and yet, you say that the war is over. hmmmmm....so which one is it? and now, you say that he IS friendly to terrorists. ok. so what terror attacks was Hussein planning against the US? Hmmmm??? Was there any Intel, or are you just pulling this out of your butt????? I mean, the intel they did have was horrendous to begin with, so why not, right???? hahahaha.

they are beyond being criminals. they are fanatical ideological lunatics that could care less if they die. a "criminal" is the type of guy that stands up your local 7-11. hahaha. you water down what is going on in Iraq NOW as, frankly, Iraq has got @#$@# all over your face. you're all talk, that's the problem, you support going in there for bs reasons, get the crap kicked out of you, and then say you win. hahaha. what have you won exactly? saddam is gone. big freaking deal. saddam didn't even give you HALF as much problems as these so called "criminals." if they are criminals, they are WAR criminals. big difference.

your in control in IRaq? hahaha. if iraq is "controlled," id HATE to see whatever chaos means to you. hahahahaha.

wether or not they are the masses in iraq is not the point. the point is that you are comparing tens of thousands of people who will DIE for their cause with one guy who was a lone wolf. you are comparing an ideology that has been left over since the OTTOMAN EMPIRE with one single guy in america. do you even know what the freaking caliph was???? are you THAT freaking dumb???? i bet ten bucks you have to look up "caliph." lmao.

the fact that they are sunnis. duh. but for someone that has nooooooo understanding or comprehention of what the hell they are talking about, the evidence would go COMPLETELY over your head. go read a history book. for the love of god. please. you REALLLY think you are going to simply "fix" this century old problem with a bunch of guns and more and more troops? hahahaha. sooooo stupid. do you even know what the Ottoman empire was????????????? do you know WHY saddam had to kill people like he did? its the only way to fix anything over there! fear is the only thing they care about, and torture. it is the only thing that will get them to comply, and, frankly, that is beyond your power. these people have no fear of you. that is why you will fail. they WANT to die, as a matter of fact. they don't have jack crap over there. they could care less about dying.

http://encarta.msn.com/guide_iraqdiv...Divisions.html

you people? sorry...one and only. that's what i am. and let me explain something to you. i could care less who rules iraq. i care about my country. and let me explain this too you as well, wether we are the "occupier" or rightfully there is not the point. the point is that we are getting screwed either way and that our debt is up past our eyeballs cuz your government is too sissy la la to tax us, as was reagan, and in the meantime, they run up the bill, refuse to pay for it, and never will pay for it, as we have seen. we went through the largest growth period in history and we couldn't pay it off in time. if we raise taxes, we're screwed, as the economy will go bad, if we dont raise taxes, we're screwed, as the gov cant stop spending for militaristic endeavours and needless wars. in other words, we're screwed! thanks for playing!

and when he actually DID kill people, the US did nothing about it. matter of fact, i wouldnt be surprised if they were killed with us supplied weapons and chemicals. when he was disabled and could no longer hurt anyone significantly, the US invades and turns the area back into a crapstorm. this is why benjamin frakling and the rest of the founding forefathers didn't give a crap about foreign wars. hahaha. its called...a bad idea. is it possible that YOU are simply a part of an idelogical party yourself? hmmmm..if anyone is a "PEOPLE" it is you. hahahaha. you are not capable of thinking for yourself, that much is certian. @#$@#$ dip@#$@.

uh...yeah it is actually. if 150,000 troops of another country are in a country, it seems like a puppet government at best. ill say iraq is free when all the us troops are home. how bout that one? do you REALLY think the majority of Iraq wants you there still? hahahaha.

if there were as many mcveighs as there are terrorists in iraq, hell yeah that is a civil war. that one guy alone blew up a huge building and killed thousands.


first of all, not nearly as many us deaths happened after the wars were over then in iraq. secondly, entirely different situation. can't even be compared. paton used to kill german resistors, drag their bodies through the streets, and then hang them up for everyone to see who was in charge. you guys cant do that. that is why you will fail. you guys have to go with the idealistic crowd at least slightly, and, unfortunatly for you, no man can serve two masters. to win, you have to face reality. that is something you can not do.

I never claimed such a thing. You made the claim that Bush "sold" the invasion to us on the basis of a connection between 911 and Saddam. The quote proves you are wrong. He would not say that if he was trying to convince people of such a connection.

You didnt?

The Bush quote goes against your claim. In fact, it implies the exact opposite.

Winning is irrelevant. I am simply questioning your claims.

Your quote does not imply that. If that isnt what you meant to say, feel free to clarify.

Um...but if you read the quote, he did not say Al-Queada, now did he? I assume you are aware that there are terrorists other than Al-Queada...right?

Of course not...I mean, they told us they werent making them, right? Is their word not good enough for us?

You seem to have trouble separating the two. removing Saddam's government does not mean that a democracy suddenly springs to life in it's place all by itself. Not sure where you got such an impression.

So yes, we are still in the process of installING a democracy, even though Saddam is deposed and his government dissolved.

The fact that he was not planning any attacks against us directly does not mean he was not a threat.

And that makes them different from criminals because...?

So a serial killer is not a criminal then? Timothy McVeigh was not a criminal?

I dont think most people share your rather...unique...definition on the word "criminal". But whatever.

This is an anonymous debate forum. Everyone here is all talk.

We removed a possible base of operations for terrorists. We prevented Saddam from manufacturing and distributing potentially dangerous technology that could be used against us. We created a democracy which is likely to be another safe base of oeprations for us in the middle east. Among other things.

There's your creative definitions again, heh heh

You are saying that resistance from less than 1% of the population = a civil war. You are wrong.

So your position is that all Sunnis agree on everything? Do you hold this same standard to Christians and Muslims as well?

The fact that you have no evidence probably has a lot to do with it too.

I know it is no longer here. But we are.

Yeah, it has worked so well in the past.

Then why arent they attacking us en masse? Surely they could overwhelm our troops easy...right?

You seem to be under the impression that they are all like the Terminator or something. The Japanese Kamakazes were not afraid to die either...did that stop us from domesticating Japan?

If they want to impale themselves on our swords, that is their choice. I dont see how this changes anything for us.

What exactly is your argumnet...that we should give up because democracy is not possible for them? Turkey is is Muslim nation AND a democracy.

BEcause we did nothing about it then, we are obligated not to do anything about it now? Is that your logic?

Now there is an end in sight. There was not before.

The Iraqis themselves dont seem to agree with you. The majority of them believe the war was worth it to get rid of Saddam. THEY seemed to think he was pretty bad.

Maybe...as long as the Bush administration continues to make the decisions I want them to make, does it matter?

Unfortunately for you, most people will not agree with you on that.

I doubt that...more likely you will accuse the US of pulling the strings behind the scenes. I doubt there is any evidence that will convince you Iraq is free.

You tell me:

Whats your threshhold for it to qualify as a civil war?....05%? Maybe as highas 1%?

Of yeah, we need to keep our fanatical cultures separate, heh heh

dont worry, im at work right now, but this entire thread above is the most backwards, contradicting P.O.S. thread ive ever read in my life. suffice me to say that much for now.