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  #101 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2009, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by UTSAChris View Post
Islam has not contributed to the development of the United States of America, other than blowing up stuff.

And once again, from your own link, here are the specific listed intents of the class, as stated in the bill:



Certainly Islam has had an impact on all of these things. Perhaps you're right. Maybe there should be a class that teaches how Islam has influenced the United States.

So let's form a lesson plan. Let's see..

For the contents of the Koran as they apply to the United States, you could list the passages that Osama Bin Laden points out to recruit people to fly airplanes into our skyscrapers.

For the history of the Koran as it applies to the United States, you could talk about Kobar towers, the USS Cole, and 9/11.

For the literary style of the Koran, you can point out how full of hate it is. And since it should not be a class devoted to a single religion, it should be compared with other religious scriptures to contrast, like the Bible.

And for the history of the Koran's impact on US law, government and culture, we can talk about The Patriot Act.

I think that should cover the basics.
Ah, the ol' evil Islam argument.

Hate to burst your bubble but Islam is based on a lot of the same scriptures that Christianity is, prays to the same god as Christians, and is as equally nonsensical and not rooted in fact as Christianity.
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  #102 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2009, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Ostap Bender View Post
I've studied the Bible longer as twenty years, tried to read it in Hebrew, Greek and read it in some others languages, but can't find any big differences to entierly Bible teaching between many translations. And for you it is suddenly a problem. Do not spread hypocrysy, as first go to Bookstore, buy a Bible and read.
Got a couple different ones right here on my desk, actually. Thank you for the advice.

So, if it's no big deal, pick a version. Which one should they teach? You're insisting that they're all the same, so should they maybe each teach whichever Bible they want? Does that sound reasonable?
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  #103 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2009, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Think for myself View Post
Start with the earth was created in seven days, then pretty much everything that follows is nonsense.
Read here and I wait for your other "example"!

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Biblical Evidence for Long Creation Days

The age of the earth and the universe is no longer disputed among most scientists. Science tells us the earth is ~4.5 x 109 years old. The universe is ~14 x 109 years old. There have been several Christian scientists who have attempted to propose theories and find "scientific" evidence that the earth is only 6,000 years old. All "evidence" for a recent creation of the earth is flawed in some way (for a discussion of this topic, see Dr. Hugh Ross' book, A Matter of Days).
Hebrew Words

Literal translations of the Hebrew word, yom, like our English word "day," can refer to a 24 hour day, sunrise to sunset (12 hours), or a long, unspecified period of time (as in "the day of the dinosaurs"). The Hebrew word ereb, translated evening also means "sunset," "night" or "ending of the day." The Hebrew word boqer, translated morning, also means "sunrise," "coming of light," "beginning of the day," or "dawning," with possible metaphoric usage (1). Our English expression: "The dawning of an age" serves to illustrate this point. This expression in Hebrew could use the word, boqer, for dawning, which, in Genesis 1, is often translated morning..........


Specific biblical examples of evidence for long creation days include:

1. The "Day of the Lord" refers to a seven year period of time.
2. Genesis 2:4 refers to all 6 days of creation as one day, "This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven."
3. The seventh day of Genesis is not closed. In all other days, "there is the evening and the morning, the n day."
4. In the book of Hebrews, the author tells us to labor to enter into God's seventh day of rest. By any calculation, God's seventh day of rest has been at least 6,000 years long:

For He has thus said somewhere concerning the seventh day, "And God rested on the seventh day from all His works"... Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall through following the same example of disobedience. (Hebrews 4:4-11)

5. The psalmist (Moses, the author of Genesis) says "For a thousand years in Thy sight are like yesterday when it passes by, or as a watch in the night." (Psalm 90:4).
6. The apostle Peter tells us with God "A thousand years is as one day" (2 Peter 3:.
7. The third day must have been longer than 24-hours, since the text indicates a process that would take a year or longer. On this day, God allowed the land to produce vegetation, tress and fruit. The text specifically states that the land produced trees that bore fruit with seed in it (3). Any horticulturist knows that fruit-bearing trees requires several years to grow to produce fruit. However, the text states that the land produced these trees (indicating a natural process) and that it all occurred on the third day. Obviously, such a "day" could not have been only 24 hours long.
8. The events of the sixth day of creation require time beyond 24 hours. On this day, God created the mammals and mankind. He also planted a garden, watered it, let it grow, and put man in it, with instruction on its care and maintenance. Then God brought all the animals to Adam to be named. This job, in itself would take many days or weeks. Next, God put Adam to sleep and created Eve. It is very unlikely all of this could take place in 24 hours, since much of it was dependent upon Adam, who did not have the abilities of God.
9. The Bible itself states that the covenant and laws of God have been proclaimed to a "thousand generations" (Deuteronomy 7:9, 1 Chronicles 16:15, Psalm 105:. Even if a generation is considered to be 20 years, this adds up to at least 20,000 years. A biblical generation is often described as being 40 years, which would represent at least 40,000 years. However, since the first dozen or more generations were nearly 1,000 years, this would make humans nearly 50,000 years old, which agrees very well with dates from paleontology and molecular biology (see Descent of Mankind Theory: Disproved by Molecular Biology).

Early Church Fathers Believed the Creation Days were Long.............
http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth/longdays.html
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  #104 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2009, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Think for myself View Post
Yes, I have read it. It is nothing more than a bunch of absurd fairy tales.
So why do you care that a state that you don't live in, and don't pay school taxes for, is holding an elective class that your kids will never take, and no kid will ever be forced to take, about the historical impact of a book of "absurd fairy tales"? If the book is so valueless, you still lose nothing. In fact, if it's such a blight on mankind, all it will do is make all those stupid Texans even more stupid, which will make all you "think for yourself" Californians that much better by comparison.

I'm with SMW. I'm the Texan. I'll make the decisions for myself, thanks. You do what you want, and I won't come to your school and start pushing my absurd belief in my sky god in your face. Deal?
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  #105 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2009, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Daybreaker View Post
Me either, really. But why should it be required of every school to offer that elective?
They are using it as a teaching tool to enhance the student's learning. There is nothing in the Bible that can harm a student and more than not will enhance his/her learning.
I went to a religious school and we had to memorize chapters of the Bible, to this day I am happy they required us to memorize those chapters.
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  #106 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2009, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Think for myself View Post
Ah, the ol' evil Islam argument.
Where are here "good" arguments?

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/quran.htm

Do not forget, I wait still for your new "examples"!
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  #107 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2009, 11:29 AM
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this incredibly stupid law i
God bless Texas for this INCREDIBLY GOOD LAW!
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  #108 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2009, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Think for myself View Post
The bill expressly emphasizes that it be a bible class with nothing that would indicate the study of Judaism is an option.
And where is here a problem? Texas isn't Downtown of New York City. There are too few Jews in this school.
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  #109 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2009, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Think for myself View Post
I am sorry, but teaching one specific religion in school in a non comparative context is clearly a violation of the first amendment. I most certainly will not "accept it and get on with my life".
Are you in high school? Why are you against teaching history out of the Bible? History is history, after all.
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  #110 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2009, 11:32 AM
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Ah, the ol' evil Islam argument.

Hate to burst your bubble but Islam is based on a lot of the same scriptures that Christianity is, prays to the same god as Christians, and is as equally nonsensical and not rooted in fact as Christianity.
Except that Islam is currently in a stage of its political development that Christianity has already finished. The entire purpose of Islam is to violently enforce the Dark Ages on humanity, and it also rejects the Hebrew scriptures completely as lies. It makes its own rules, all of which are based on political manipulations. Mohammed specifically taught violence. Yeshua specifically taught peace.
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