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Originally Posted by libertyordeath";p="
A right, which makes it different than a privilege, is a social contract between you and God, impossible to be taken away by other humans. If you don't believe in God, I really can't convince you of rights.
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I am a devout believer in God. I am not a monotheist, not even a polytheist, but I believe in God. I am, not to brag, probably more of a religious zealot than you, and probably more religious than you despite your invoking of the monotheistic God constantly. But even I recognize we live in a material universe where you can't prove God. Sure, you can't disprove it, but the burden of proof to prove a pink invisible dragon lives in your garage is on YOU.
Plus you're revising what rights are. Instead of being social contracts, you ascribe them to God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertyordeath";p="
I'm not going to convince you of the existence of God, you aren't going to convince me otherwise. It's just a matter of what truths you hold to be self-evident. America was founded on the belief that we all hold inalienable rights, and as long as I live here I'm going to do whatever it takes to defend my rights
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Oh the irony. I never said we don't deserve rights. My point is that you only have right to liberty, property, etc, because society says so. If society takes away your rights, God never has intervened, has he? Aside from the myths of the Bible, and that's very rare indeed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertyordeath";p="
They do have concepts of freedom. That's why they build weapons to defend their life and property. If they didn't believe in assembly, they wouldn't have ever come together to develop civilizations. I'm not trying to prove to you that rights are endowed by a higher power, but you can't deny that the concept of basic freedoms have existed since the beginning of man.
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I never denied that. I said that humans organized in essence to protect their lives. I think. If not, that's what I meant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertyordeath";p="
In a secular argument, I can't convince you otherwise. From a secular standpoint, we have no more rights than bacterium. I draw my logic from the belief that there is a higher power. You wouldn't be able to convince me rights don't exist if you had to assume God existed and created us.
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I have no problem with you believing you have rights granted to you by God. My entire point has been this: what is the point of being granted rights if God doesn't actively protect them? Isn't that kindof like granting the right to be free to a sentient machine, but when it comes down to it, we don't do anything?
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertyordeath";p="
They formed protective units to protect their right to life.
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Their
will to live.
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertyordeath";p="
Even if you don't believe in rights, you can accept the idea that we should reserve certain privileges, and defend them from the government and others, even to the death. That whenever the people don't reserve certain privileges, the society inevitably takes them all away and then collapses on itself, similar to the Soviet Union. That privileges should be reserved for the principal of reserving them.
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I never rejected believing we should have rights. My argument here and on other forums when applicable is that rights are only protected by man, so it really relevant if a higher power created the concept of a right?
Hey, I'm glad you're not one of those idiots who thinks Reagan took down the Soviet Union all by himself. Or even due to him at all.
12-08-2007, 02:04 AM
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