Please note that, contrary to all the dire predictions of the right wing experts, social democracies such as Finland equals the US in the World Competiveness Index, with Denmark, Canada and Australia not far behind. So much for socialism killing their economies.

http://www01.imd.ch/documents/wcy/content/ranking.pdf

oc

It is common economic theory that tells us that as economies progress with technology. They move from agricultural economies to industrial economies to service economies to information economies.

Yes, Porter is a leading strategist and a very respected man. I think that the backlash is being realized now and we can do nothing about it due to the inevitable trend to globalization. The good that comes from these global strategic decisions is realized today in the form of ROI and stockholder value. It is the basic principle of increasing economic viability while adding value through the value chain and minimizing cost drivers. I think that you tacked your own thoughts on the end of Porters statement.

Highly skilled and sought after career fields are moving away form the U.S. less quickly, but will eventually go away as well. Other jobs requiring even more skill will replace them.

The companies you mentioned merely have assembly plants and distribution channels in the U.S. A few may have manufacturing, but on a small scale and in circumstances in which it is economically unviable to ship or overcome tariffs. In the Jackson, MI case, it may be a matter of efficient supply chain management (being near to Detroit). Siemens is a service organization.

Remember, outsourcing is not good for U.S. worker; it is good for the U.S. consumer.

Sorry to disagree with you so much, but I have studied this area intensely. Is this even in line with this thread?

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"Democracy is a process by which the people are free to choose the man who will get the blame."

-Laurence J. Peter

By the way, the trend to globalization will soon eliminate socialism as a viable form of government. In order to survive nations will have to compete based on productivity, favorable currency flocculation, and trade.

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"Democracy is a process by which the people are free to choose the man who will get the blame."

-Laurence J. Peter

the double digit unemployment rates that come with it. And their mediocre to poor health systems. Complain about ours all you like, it blows away the red tape like waiting 12 months to get an approval for an MRI. It doesn't even say what the competitive index is comprised of or means.

Which jobs pay better? Any job that requires certification such as nursing, engineering, technicians (pick your field - IT, telecom, power, etc). You can do some R&D work with a two year degree. And as more people go to college more people move out of mfg jobs and into degreed positions. And actually I didn't mean they'll go away entirely, mfg jobs will always be a part of the economy. Besides quality it only makes sense to manufacture certain products here because shipping is cost prohibitive. And defense manufcturing will always be here, the US will never change that. But they're not the driving force, those days are over. And sending mfg jobs overseas isn't a fad, it started in the 1940's and will continue. Outsourcing IT is somewhat of a fad, there are some who will do it, but the trend will slow.

Companies are infatuated with share price, however many of those decisions are based on ROI. Well managed companies don't make decisions on share price. GE doesn't outsource IT because it will help their stock, they do it because the ROI is attractive. The rub is sometimes the components of ROI are not completely understood.

ROI is an indicator of company success without accounting for some key factors. It changes from quarter to quarter depending on earnings and capital investment, not future growth or loss.

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"Democracy is a process by which the people are free to choose the man who will get the blame."

-Laurence J. Peter

But I do know one thing. America will never move towards socialism. The quality of life in America is the best in the world. In socialist countries the quality of life is much poorer. One thing Americans will not do is give up the comforts they enjoy. Competition is the driving force in a good economy. Without it there is no incentive to work hard and improve the quality of your life. Health care is the perfect example. Like I said, I'm not an economist, but to me common sense tells me if the sky is the limit, then there is always hope.

Communism, like all utopianism, tends to ignore human nature and natural social function in favor of social engineering, and is thus doomed to failure. This was intriguing social thought during the late 19th century, and it remains the perennial darling of many students and young people that have yet to fully grasp how the world works, but it's simply not a practical model and it's day has passed. History already shows that it's purpose was to act as a counterpoint to unfettered capitalism, and to that end it succeeded.

While social democracies strike a fair balance between social wellbeing and capitalism, and thrive widely around the world, undiluted communism with communes and work collectives by government directive will never happen again. Communes and collectives do exist within capitalist countries, and in some cases thrive, however this is a function of a conscious choice by the participants, not the action of government without mandate.

My personal view is that undiluted and unfettered capitalism is similarly doomed within the next 50yrs. While the US has achieved great economic success, that success is not broadly shared among it's citizens, and the distance between the haves and the have nots grows every year. At some point it will reach and untenable situation.... again. In reality there is very little class mobility in the US contrary to all the rosy oration one hears.

Further, the unrestricted flow of capital inflow is always welcomed by the 3rd world, but disasters like the aftermath of the currency meltdown/capital flight from Asia in the late 90's shows how destructive sudden capital flight is. Millions of middle class families were thrown into abject poverty, which has given fuel to previously harmless subversive organizations in that region. I suspect that the first step will be aimed at large multinational business when the US re-imposes some the restrictions implemented in the 1930's, like Glass-Stegal, as it recognizes the error of repealing them during the 1990's with the Financial Services Modernization Act. I also imagine there will be international rules ratified over the next decade that regulate the international flow of capital to a small, but necessary, extent in order to prevent the kind of disruption that occurred when traders put pressure on Asian currencies.

As is often the case, neither extreme offers a long term practical solution, and the middle ground is where the future is. Americans love to tout unfettered capitalism, and have phobic reactions to socialism, however at the end of the day, nobody wants to see granny living out of a shopping cart under a highway overpass, so social security was implemented, however it's future is doomed. Sooner or later, the US will be forced to address the failure of social security and a national discussion will ensue that will eventually lead to more socialism than many currently imagine. Even the arch conservative Bush administration forced through prescription drug legislation for the elderly rather than face the anger of that demographic at election time. It was a horrible first attempt due to the influence of pharmaceutical lobby, but that is often the case with first attempts at anything. It will get fine tuned as the years go by. And, it's huge cost will hasten the day when social programs must be further rationalized.

Regardless of whether that change is bringing democracy to Iraq or socially humane government to another country, real long term change happens in an evolutionary manner with the consent of the governed, not wholesale change by directive at gunpoint. While it's not impossible that a country would freely elect a communist government in the future, I don't see that happening. The inefficiencies have been adequetely demonstrated, and the real advantages over a social democracy are few.

oc[/quote]
Oddly says....."In reality there is very little class mobility in the US contrary to all the rosy oration one hears."

This is absolutely NOT true. I'm a perfect example of "class mobility" in America. And I know plenty more who are such an example. Everyone in America has the opportunity to be successful at whatever they choose to do. They've just got to have the desire and the tenacity.[/quote]I feel sorry for the American class mobility getting such a crappy example

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“Capitalism cannot reform itself; it is doomed to self-destruction. No universal selfishness can bring social good to all.” —Dr. W.E.B. Du Bois

Forced servitude to your neighbors is humane?

The way communism sounds when advocates describe it sounds wonderful. Everybody just loves to work really hard so the community will be better off. But that's not how things work. I am proof. I would have to be incarcerated or killed were I forced to live in a communist society, because it would be no different than slavery.

But keep wondering why people are against it.

Um.... It has, and unfortunately, it will continue to move towards socialism.

You think the recent $600 billion dollar jack towards medicaid wasn't an example of socialism? The New Deal? The Great Society?

I mean, those titles even sound soviet. Might as well call the New Deal "The 5 Year Plan".

The fact that we dont think it can work reliably = intimidation?

Mostly because it is. How many communist governments are not oppressive?

If by "very prone" you mean "100% likely", then I agree. So far we have not seen a single exception.

It is getting tedious really. You people come on here and make it sound like there is only a small chance that a communist government will descend into dictatorship and/or totalitarianism. Get it straight: From what we have seen so far there is ZERO chance it will NOT. None.

Anything that leads to the deliberate oppression of people = evil. Sorry.

Because we have a bunch of new nations recently free of Communist oppression that are validating every fear we had of Communism.