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Old 02-28-2007, 08:53 AM
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This test is quite accurate except for one thing: The "center", in reality, has moved sharply southeast since the late 1990's. While I am just barely a libertarian according to this test, I think that I am actually a moderate and that Bush and Kerry should be southeasterners.
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Old 02-28-2007, 03:13 PM
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Default South East.

Neighbors with FDR and Pat Buchanan (Also Hitler and Stalin...)
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Old 02-28-2007, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Ivan";p=&quot View Post
Neighbors with FDR and Pat Buchanan (Also Hitler and Stalin...)
While FDR definitely belongs in the southeast, I don't think Pat Buchanan does (I sense some Republican hawks behind that obvious jab). If Bush and Kerry are near the center, then Buchanan is definitely a northerner. He may be against free international trade but otherwise he is for smaller government. I think Buchanan should be near but slightly east of Drew Carey.
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Old 02-28-2007, 05:42 PM
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While FDR definitely belongs in the southeast, I don't think Pat Buchanan does (I sense some Republican hawks behind that obvious jab). If Bush and Kerry are near the center, then Buchanan is definitely a northerner. He may be against free international trade but otherwise he is for smaller government. I think Buchanan should be near but slightly east of Drew Carey.
Buchanan is perfect right where he is. He is a self proclaimed traditionalist, and would increase government power in the economy to levels that haven't been seen in decades. In the end Buchanan and his kind are far from even Conservatives they are a new breed of Nietzschean. Or as Paleo guru and hero Paul Gottfried said in his book "The Conservative Movement",

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Above all they raise issues that the neoconservatives and the left would both seek to keep closed, for instance, questions about the desirability of political and social equality, the functionality of human rights thinking, the genetic basis of intelligence. In all these assaults on the liberal and neoconservative pieties, paleoconservative reveal an iconoclastic exuberance rarely found on the post war intellectual Right. Their spirit is far more Nietzachean than neo- Thomistic, and like Nietzsche they go after democratic idols, driven by disdain for what they believe dehumanizes.
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Old 02-28-2007, 06:07 PM
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While FDR definitely belongs in the southeast, I don't think Pat Buchanan does (I sense some Republican hawks behind that obvious jab). If Bush and Kerry are near the center, then Buchanan is definitely a northerner. He may be against free international trade but otherwise he is for smaller government. I think Buchanan should be near but slightly east of Drew Carey.
[color=red]Buchanan is perfect right where he is. He is a self proclaimed traditionalist, and would increase government power in the economy to levels that haven't been seen in decades...
A 17% flat income tax doesn't seem consistent with that at all. As for paleoconservatives being Nietzschean, like Nietzsche or not, his actual ideas were radically individualist and had more in common with Ayn Rand's than with any statist's (the Nazis distorted his works to their ends). The Old Right does indeed derive some of its philosophy from the likes of Nietzsche, which is all the more reason I consider it more libertarian than authoritarian in substance.
To me, the blind spot of paleoconservatism is its opposition to individualism within a nation's culture, but the New Right shares this, is interventionist in foreign affairs and sees the welfare state as a useful political tool, making Bush far more authoritarian than Buchanan. Buchanan is a traditionalist, but traditional American economics are very capitalistic. I looked up the author you cited, incidentally, and he works with the Von Mises Institute (as anti-statist as it gets).
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Old 03-05-2007, 11:44 AM
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Up until recently when he's had more issue with the current administration, Buchanon's been pretty (*)(*)(*)(*) fascist in regards to minorities and especially immigrants. I don't know whether he's settled down or whether he just has his hands full attacking the neo-cons.
But he does favor a welfare state of sorts. He's on record saying that the unregulated free market is a dangerous force. He believes the market to be volatile and cruel (which is probably an accurate description to some extent). I think he at least falls as a Centrist on economic matters rather than on the right and his social views take him far, far to the right, far past any rational human being.
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Old 03-05-2007, 12:25 PM
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Up until recently when he's had more issue with the current administration, Buchanon's been pretty (*)(*)(*)(*) fascist in regards to minorities and especially immigrants.
I disagree with his extreme anti-immigration stance, which is the only reason I wouldn't vote for him. His social views are nationalist but not fascist. Fascism entails persecuting minority groups rather than attempting to make them blend into a national identity. I disagree with Buchanan on the issue, but I don't think he has any fascist leanings.

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But he does favor a welfare state of sorts.
He favors welfare for American businesses (more of his nationalism), something I also disagree with, but overall he would spend much less than either the Republicans or the Democrats, so he is solidly on the fiscal Right.

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His social views take him far, far to the right, far past any rational human being.
Actually, I consider him to be moderate in the social policies he would implement (except on immigration). Here are some statements of his that his political opponents have conveniently omitted from their out-of-context smears:

[I wrote] a column in 1983, [when] 600 people had died of AIDS and 1,600 were infected. And I said, ‘What is the matter with our government that it doesn’t recognize this?’ I said, ‘This could kill thousands of people.’ At the end of that column, I had that one throwaway line [that AIDS is a consequence of immoral sex], which I don’t withdraw. But I was the first national columnist to demand why the government wasn’t dealing with this national epidemic. I don’t apologize for that or my views, sir.

Source: National Public Radio interview, “Talk of the Nation” May 30, 2000

http://www.issues2002.org/Celeb/Pat_...htm#Gay_Rights

Buchanan criticized “smashing” Serbia with a 78-day bombing campaign, and then denying Serbs heating oil & aid in removing the debris of war. “This immoral policy shames us as a people,” Buchanan said. “We are putting old men, women, and children under a sentence of death for failing to do what NATO itself could not do: overthrow Milosevic.” Better ways to punish rogue states, Buchanan said, include cutting off overseas assets of dictators, denying them loans & levying tariffs to deny them hard currency.

Source: NY Times, p. A22 Dec 17, 1999

We are told the first target of America’s wrath will be the Taliban. But if we rain fire and death on the Afghan nation, a proud, brave people we helped liberate from Soviet bondage, we too will slaughter hundreds of innocents. And as they count their dead, the Afghans too will unite in moral outrage; and, as they cannot fight cruise missiles or Stealth bombers, they will attack our diplomats, businessmen, tourists.

Source: Los Angeles Times, Op-Ed page Sep 18, 2001

Buchanan said Bush and Gore have been unquestioning supporters of Israel during the recent conflict in the Middle East. He said Israel bears some responsibility for provoking Palestinian attacks by extending Jewish settlements in the West Bank. “Of course the Israelis are our friends, but we’ve got to have a more even-handed policy,” he said. “We have friends in the Arab world, and we have to be friends to the idea of justice in the conflict between Israel and Palestinians.”

Source: Zachary Coile, San Francisco Examiner Oct 27, 2000

http://www.issues2002.org/Celeb/Pat_...ar_+_Peace.htm

In their attempts to portray Buchanan as a Nazi sympathizer, fascist and God knows what else, neoconservatives have painted a very inaccurate picture of his actual views. He holds a mix of libertarian and authoritarian views on social issues and, with the exception of foreign trade, is very capitalistic. I could overlook his protectionism, but I agree that he is an extremist on immigration, meaning that I agree with him on only 5 of the 6 critical issues that will determine my voting habits. However, among moral conservatives, militaristic theocrats of the Falwell/Robertson variety are on the New Right and, unlike Buchanan, present an actual threat to the sanity of American politics. Falwell, by the way, said that he had so much trust in George W. Bush that he would support him whether he wanted to double taxes or eliminate them.
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Old 03-05-2007, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JavaBlack";p=&quot View Post
Up until recently when he's had more issue with the current administration, Buchanon's been pretty (*)(*)(*)(*) fascist in regards to minorities and especially immigrants.
Good. Why do I have to press 1 for English?!
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Old 03-17-2007, 06:27 AM
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I am a Southerner-an egalitarian-which means that I advocate an increased role for the government in the economic realm. I am more or less pleased the government's role in the personal realm.

http://www.politopia.com/image.php?P1=-1&E1=-6

I think there should be a fourth dimension to politics.

The care of the survival of the human species.

[Pro-Survival of Humanity] - [Pro-Survival of secular part of humanity] - [Pro-selfish concerns]

Hitler is pro-selfish is middle line in this area.
Stalin is pro-selfish is more self-centered.
Jesus was pro-survival for all humanity.
Nero was one of the most self-centered.

You can be both conservative (traditionalist), authoritarian (demand strict regulation), and monocratic (autocratic) and still be promoting the survival of the human race like Captain Picard in Star Trek and Kevin Sorbo's character on Andromeda.
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Old 03-18-2007, 01:30 AM
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West-You are a Westerner-a civil libertarian-which means that you advocate a diminished role for the government in the personal realm. You are more or less pleased the government's role in the economic realm.

Plenty of elbow room out west.
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