political science: systems that work - Page 3

frustratedone · #21 (**permalink**) 05-27-2008, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivan

Social Democracy seems FAIRLY WELL BALANCED.

While I tend to agree with this statement, it should be noted that the social democracies of Western Europe are having to seriously re-evaluate their policies and provisions as a result of the aging population and the reproduction rates that aren't keeping up at a rate to support it. The welfare states of Western Europe are on the verge of collapse in some areas and in need of serious reconstruction in others. I think it's best to examine what types of systems seem to work best in what types of circumstances as I don't know that we could find one system that works best for all circumstances. Just a thought.

DanishDynamite · #22 (**permalink**) 06-01-2008, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nonsqtr

Out of the entire spectrum of "systems of government" in political science (including the concept of "no" government) - what are the systems that "work'?

Here's my claim in that regard, and see what you think:

The systems (or "parts of" systems) that "work", are those that "dovetail with human nature".

What do I mean by that?

Well.... it's kinda this concept: "channeling" peoples' "bad behavior" (such as it's reflected in "human nature") along "useful" lines -

And "useful" - that would be, primarily, a social metric (eg "useful to society") -

So, for instance - capitalism. It "works" because it channels "greed" along useful lines.

Democracy - it "works" because it channels "control" along useful lines

Nationalism - "works" in a different way, because it channels "aggression" along..... both useful and not-so-useful lines.....

See what I mean?

Thoughts?

Depends what you mean by "works".

Dictatorships can last for many, many generations, for example.

BigRed · #23 (**permalink**) 06-01-2008, 02:07 PM

There really isn't a system of government that works. On the flip side, no government isn't fool proof either.

However, the best system (IMO), the one that gets the closest to perfection is a limited government with maximum freedom. More or a less a libertarian society.

DanishDynamite · #24 (**permalink**) 06-01-2008, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRed

There really isn't a system of government that works. On the flip side, no government isn't fool proof either.

However, the best system (IMO), the one that gets the closest to perfection is a limited government with maximum freedom. More or a less a libertarian society.

Again, you say "closest to perfection", while nonsqtr said "works". My question is simply "closest to perfection" in regard to what? "works" in regard to what?

What are the criteria by which you are judging?

BigRed · #25 (**permalink**) 06-01-2008, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanishDynamite

Again, you say "closest to perfection", while nonsqtr said "works". My question is simply "closest to perfection" in regard to what? "works" in regard to what?

What are the criteria by which you are judging?

Works the best for the individual, which in turns, works the best for society as a whole.

DanishDynamite · #26 (**permalink**) 06-01-2008, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRed

Works the best for the individual, which in turns, works the best for society as a whole.

Again, what do you mean by "works best for the individual"? And what do you mean by "works best for society"? Works best in what way? What criteria are you using?

BigRed · #27 (**permalink**) 06-01-2008, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanishDynamite

Again, what do you mean by "works best for the individual"? And what do you mean by "works best for society"? Works best in what way? What criteria are you using?

Common sense, rationality, logic, morality and some fact (historical and otherwise) dictate to me that it is the best way to go for the individual and for society.

DanishDynamite · #28 (**permalink**) 06-01-2008, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRed

Common sense, rationality, logic, morality and some fact (historical and otherwise) dictate to me that it is the best way to go for the individual and for society.

You don't seem to understand my simple question. I'll repeat it:

What criteria are you using to judge whether a given society is good or bad?

I'm not asking what facilities you make use of to properly arrive at the answer. I'm just asking what criteria you are using to judge a society against.

BigRed · #29 (**permalink**) 06-01-2008, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanishDynamite

You don't seem to understand my simple question. I'll repeat it:

What criteria are you using to judge whether a given society is good or bad?

I'm not asking what facilities you make use of to properly arrive at the answer. I'm just asking what criteria you are using to judge a society against.

What other criteria would I use besides what I just outlined?

A society is good that adheres to what I outlined.

A society is bad that doesn't adhere to what I outlined.

...

DanishDynamite · #30 (**permalink**) 06-01-2008, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRed

What other criteria would I use besides what I just outlined?

A society is good that adheres to what I outlined.

A society is bad that doesn't adhere to what I outlined.

...

Sorry, but I don't understand.

I would expect you to judge a society by things like degree of freedom, degree of prosperity, degree of caring for its elders, etc.

You really wish to judge societies just by "common sense, rationality, logic, morality"? What does that even mean?

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