Thread: Utopia is at power. Forecasts and results of the Communist experiment.

•Fourth forecast Marx: The death of religion must occur, because, according to Marx, religion is opium for people.
Result: It is the collapse of all attempts to forbid religion and flowering of everyday immorality. But it was able to put the Church under control of the KGB (Committee of State Security): all appointments to post of the priest were with the permission of the Commissioner to affairs of religion, it were a many of informers among the priests. A large share of priests had been in the GULAG, where many of them died. Large part of
the Church values was robbed by Soviet power. Patriarch Tikhon had died in prison. Many churches were dynamited or desecrated by order of the authorities. Powers could undermine the faith in God among the large part of population; this has led to increased the number of suicides, divorces, abortions, level of crime, flourishing domestic drunkenness.
•Fifth forecast of Marx: prohibition of the bourgeois culture and ideology which, as if, justify the exploitation of man to man.
Results: It is the building of an ideological machine by deception for its own people, it is the establishing of censorship, it is low level and low quality of domestic culture. Talented artists were forced to emigrate, were expelled abroad, have been in prison, were brought to suicide, but mediocre artists edited their works huge circulations, which was difficult to sell. Thus, the disappearance of competition among Soviet artists had led to total
degradation of quality for their artistic works.
•Sixth forecast of Marx: It is dictatorship of the proletariat with subsequent death of State.
Results: It is the arbitrariness of the authorities and State terror against its own people. It is deliberate initiating of civil fratricidal war. It is prohibition of the opposition parties and the capital punishment of their members. Voting was open from 1918 to 1936. Elections become a farce gradually. Instead death of State it became by tyrannical and then oligarchic. Bodies of State terror have become State security organs, which change your title periodically ‐ VChK, GPU, MGB, and then the KGB. They can act contrary to law. Such functions have carried out “oprichniks” when tsar Ivan Grozny (“terrible”) was. Malyita Skuratov was personal hangman under Ivan Grozny. Start Bolshevik’s terror was one from causes of the civil war. Deputies of Constituent Assembly F. F. Kokoshkin and A. I. Shingarev were killed among the first, and nothing remembers even about such formality, as deputy immunity.
• Seventh forecast of Marx: building a classless society.
Results: Classless society (communism) have left distant utopia, realty results were the destruction of many representatives of nobility, priests, rich peasants, Cossacks, the bourgeoisie and merchants, confiscation of property and State’s robbery under the Lenin’s slogan “It need to rob property which was robed!”. This robbery was accompanied by physical destruction and imprisonment by the representatives of these estates. This policy has resulted to destruction of private entrepreneurship, the disappearance of economic stimuluses to labour, to equality in poverty, economic ruin, because the organizers of a large production were destroyed or expelled from the country. The economic policy of military communism had replaced the market to direct distribution of products and clothing. But before it can distribute, first it need take away these products from peasants under threat of execution, but such an withdrawal has received a just resistance of peasants and it was one from causes of the civil war. This war continued until such time as Lenin replaced by food’s confiscation (“Prodrazvyorstka”) to food’s tax.
“Prodrazvyorstka” is state’s robbing of peasants without any norms and restrictions. Unlike “Prodrazvyorstka” , the size of the food’s tax was known in advance and was less than the size of “Prodrazvyorstka”. Lenin replaced the policy of military communism to policy NEP (New Economic Policy), that is he abolished the prohibition on petty trading, he entered the convertible currency – the Golden Russian chervonets, Lenin has allowed again that
enterprising man can become an employer (“nepman”). Stalin destroy HEP and repressed “nepmans”. As a result of all these cataclysms a new ruling layer (party “nomenclature”) appears.
Conclusion: As long there will be a division of public labour, such long society will be built at the social conflict and social control, until the classless society will remain a unrealizable utopia.
2.7.4.5. The conclusions from the Communist experiment:
Simplifying social structure is impossible. Religion, private property, market, state, laws, money, the separation of powers, democracy, a multi‐party system, the constitution, art competition, scientific discussion, the prison system, the army, law enforcement authorities, social control and social conflict are a great social inventions, which will die never and cannot be abolished without damage for society, and without just resistance of the population to this efforts of utopianists. Self‐ isolation of utopian State will leads to economic collapse inevitably.

I rely on Raymon Aron"s and Carl Popper's ideas in this article. My advantage consists in comparison with these authors that I have own theory of interrelation between the social conflict and social control. Popper had given criticism of prophecies of Marx in the book «Open society and his enemies». I had developed Popper's this plan in this article.
This experiment was finished in Russia in 1991, It is time to do conclusions from this experiment:
•The first forecast Marx: the prohibition of wars, establishing democratic peace among peoples.
Result: the Soviet Union has committed aggression against Finland in 1939, against Afghanistan in 1979; the USSR came to economic collapse as a result of military competition with USA during the “cold” war. Responsibility for disorder of Russian army lies just on Bolsheviks in 1917. When Bolsheviks had seized power and had taken on itself the responsibility for managing of the country, they have showed own total incompetence under signing of the shameful Brest’s peace with Germany or, perhaps, have begun to betray the national interests of Russia in exchange for money German intelligence. Just responsibility lies on Bolsheviks of the collapse of the Russian army in 1917. This defeat in war with Germany had become the lesson for the Bolsheviks, and they later became to spend all forces of the country for preparation to war. Stalin did not feel embarrassed to enter to collusion even with Hitler. Bolsheviks conducted the secret terrorist operations in worldwide. Thus, the Bolshevik’s Russia became the aggressor and the source of the terrorist threat often. But communism crash in Russia hasn't stopped military rivalry of Russia against the USA and the NATO. Conclusion: the complete ban of wars is a utopia.
•Second forecast Marx: socialism should win in worldwide.
Result: The affair of socialism is lost nearly everywhere today. Socialist regimes have preserved only in North Korea, China and Cuba today. Only one‐party communist system has remained from a totalitarian regime in China today. Market and private property had restored in the economy of China today. A demonstration student at Tiananmen Square, demanding the restoration of democracy, was crushed by tanks on 3 June 1989. But in economic development of China has achieved huge success thanks to very low cost of wage labor and huge zeal of Chinese workers, low taxes, absence of old-age pensions for workers. As a result of the cost of Chinese goods is very low, although their quality is a very low also. Hunger has started in Cuba without Soviet help, condition of health of old dictator Fidel Castro deteriorated badly, he has carried heavy operation, so the democratic opposition waits of his death with impatience so as to restore democracy, market and private property, to develop tourism. If the Soviet State enterprises lost continuously to foreign private enterprises in a foreign market, if the Communists lost on elections in developed Western countries constantly, that the Soviet communists tried to win these countries with help armed forces, to established the communist tyranny and to take away these effective enterprise at private owners in favor of the State and to make them ineffective. Russians Bolsheviks wont to organize the export of revolution, exports of Utopia, which means exporting of Asian formation in other countries on bayonets of Soviet soldiers or with help of the organization to seize power in other country by the Communists from this countries on Soviet money. USSR sent large sums of money on the support of the Communist parties and regimes with the Socialist orientation worldwide. This had led to the emergence of political groups in other countries, which built the visibility of the Communist work, this had led to senseless waste of State’s funds in the USSR, that was one of causes of economic collapse of communist regime in the USSR eventually.
• Third forecast Marx: The market, the exploitation of man to man, private
ownership of the means of production should to die.
Result: It is economic collapse of socialism, which had the following manifestations::
A. The emergence of deficit for some kinds of goods. Terrible hunger arisen repeatedly at time of government of Stalin and Lenin, for example hunger in the cities during the civil war, hunger in the Volga region, hunger after the beginning of collectivization, hunger after the end of the Second World war. These periodic cases of hunger had led to huge human victims. To cope with hunger Soviet regime has entered repeatedly the distribution of products on cards and voting, in fact, this regime is supported population of Russia in condition of balancing on the verge of hunger permanently in all its history. Last period of deterioration for economic position of the population had become during the government of Gorbachev when only bread and birch’s juice had remained on the shelves of supermarkets in free sale. Soviet people were able to survive only with help their own kitchen-gardens, breeding of cattle in personal house‐keeping, through the sale of products on the “colhos’s” market and illegal purchase with surcharge of deficit goods from familiar sellers.
B. Domestic industrial products are unable to compete on the world market. The Soviet Union became raw material's appendage of Western economies. USSR began to export grain in large scale abroad in exchange for industrial equipment with 1920s; incidentally, this was one of the main causes of hunger after the beginning of collectivization. Thus, the hunger was artificial, resulting in incorrect economic policies of the Communist regime. As a result of collectivization agriculture of Russia was disorganized definitively. Agriculture of Russia could not ensure the needs of population of even their own country; therefore, the Communist regime was forced to import the grain from abroad in 1960s. This regime had founded a new export goods – oil and gas. Geologists had discovered a new field of these energy carriers in Western Siberia. Prices of energy carriers had fallen in the 1990s, this had become to cause of deficit of many goods in USSR and cause of collapse for communist regime. Prices of energy carriers had risen again in recent 10 years that is one of the main causes of relative economic well‐being of the modern Russia today. If country has made a stake on the export of raw materials that this country has the vulnerable economic position, cause of this is that its economic successes could finish to economic collapse suddenly for many reasons, for example, because the depletion of fields this raw material, because sharp fall of prices for this kind of raw materials, because the invention of substitute for this kind of raw materials. For example, thermonuclear stations will can become an inexhaustible source of energy in future instead of oil and gas.
C. It turned out that state enterprises work less efficiently than private enterprises.
Not only experience of socialism in Russia indicates to this fact, but the experience of the government of Social‐Democrats in Sweden indicates to this fact too. Private firms give more profit under production of goods, quality of this goods is better. This fact is recognized around the all world, so governments tries to privatize State enterprises everywhere as far as possible. This fact was explained that the leadership of the State enterprise is not afraid of the devastation of its business and it is able to pay their debts from the State budget, all State enterprises are losing money. Economic stimulus in private enterprise make the control in this enterprise more effective compared with the administrative control in State enterprises.
D. Exploitation of man to men has not disappeared under socialism. The notion “exploitation” is essentially a synonym of notion “social control”, and social control cannot be deleted from the social structure. If worker worked to the entrepreneur under capitalism that worker worked to the official under socialism. It is almost no difference for the worker on who to work, but entrepreneur pays more money than official usually.
E. Remuneration according to quantity and quality of labour under capitalism had been changed to remuneration according to level of the occupied post under socialism. Workers can work badly under socialism, but it was important to retain his post, so workers walked to plant without clear objectives, drank vodka in plant, played cards, went shopping in working time, but tried don’t to commit the truancies. Thus, labour discipline was very bad under socialism. Collective farmers worked badly under Stalin because they get wages nothing, and collective farmers worked badly under Khrushchev and Brezhnev because they get wages something all equally. Himself Brezhnev was lazy and sick man, therefore he worked only two hours in day in end of his life, he read the books never and spent rest time to hunting or watching TV. Soviet elite imitated to own ruler always.
F. Sector of the slave economy is the GULAG (State government of camps), GULAG has arose in USSR under Stalin. GULAG required of the recruitment new and new slaves, because the duration of the life for prisoners was very low because of the hard conditions of labour. If the prisoner exceeded the day’s norm of productivity for labour on 50% that he received even one herring in addition to the own food norm of bread (Stalin’s norm). If the prisoner didn’t to carry out norm of productivity for labour, that he didn’t received own food norm of bread in this day and died from hunger soon. This was a senseless embezzlement of workforce’s resource. This is contrary to human rights. GULAG is a sample of barracks socialism.
G. industrialization was conducted at the expense of robbery of villages, as result the main export’s sector of economy (agriculture) was devastated.

Originally Posted by Valery Staricov

•Fourth forecast Marx: The death of religion must occur, because, according to Marx, religion is opium for people.
Result: It is the collapse of all attempts to forbid religion and flowering of everyday immorality. But it was able to put the Church under control of the KGB (Committee of State Security): all appointments to post of the priest were with the permission of the Commissioner to affairs of religion, it were a many of informers among the priests. A large share of priests had been in the GULAG, where many of them died. Large part of
the Church values was robbed by Soviet power. Patriarch Tikhon had died in prison. Many churches were dynamited or desecrated by order of the authorities. Powers could undermine the faith in God among the large part of population; this has led to increased the number of suicides, divorces, abortions, level of crime, flourishing domestic drunkenness.

False. This is a misrepresentation of Marx' views based on an anachronistic view. In Marx' time opium was a pain-killer, Marx meant that religion reliefs pain of the capitalist system, he was not anti-religious.

Incidentally, abortion was banned, and the rest of these social problems is just nonsense, you can not prove a causality.

[QUOTE=Valery Staricov;1061075780•Fifth forecast of Marx: prohibition of the bourgeois culture and ideology which, as if, justify the exploitation of man to man.
Results: It is the building of an ideological machine by deception for its own people, it is the establishing of censorship, it is low level and low quality of domestic culture. Talented artists were forced to emigrate, were expelled abroad, have been in prison, were brought to suicide, but mediocre artists edited their works huge circulations, which was difficult to sell. Thus, the disappearance of competition among Soviet artists had led to total
degradation of quality for their artistic works.[/QUOTE]

[citation needed]

[QUOTE=Valery Staricov;1061075780•Sixth forecast of Marx: It is dictatorship of the proletariat with subsequent death of State.
Results: It is the arbitrariness of the authorities and State terror against its own people. It is deliberate initiating of civil fratricidal war. It is prohibition of the opposition parties and the capital punishment of their members. Voting was open from 1918 to 1936. Elections become a farce gradually. Instead death of State it became by tyrannical and then oligarchic. Bodies of State terror have become State security organs, which change your title periodically ‐ VChK, GPU, MGB, and then the KGB. They can act contrary to law. Such functions have carried out “oprichniks” when tsar Ivan Grozny (“terrible”) was. Malyita Skuratov was personal hangman under Ivan Grozny. Start Bolshevik’s terror was one from causes of the civil war. Deputies of Constituent Assembly F. F. Kokoshkin and A. I. Shingarev were killed among the first, and nothing remembers even about such formality, as deputy immunity.[/QUOTE]

Dictatorship of the proletariat is not actually a dictatorship. Russia was only a DOTP in 1917, from then onwards this was abolished.
IF you look at Marx' description of the DOTP we see this was non-existent in the USSR.
Marx said that in a dictatorship of the proletariat, workers would have the right to recall and give mandates to public officials to guarantee a sort of grassroots democracy. Did was never implemented (only in 1917, but the Bolsheviks destroyed it in 191. He said public officials would receive an average wage, which was non-existent in the USSR.
He said money would be abolished, which was not introduced.

[QUOTE=Valery Staricov;1061075780• Seventh forecast of Marx: building a classless society.
Results: Classless society (communism) have left distant utopia, realty results were the destruction of many representatives of nobility, priests, rich peasants, Cossacks, the bourgeoisie and merchants, confiscation of property and State’s robbery under the Lenin’s slogan “It need to rob property which was robed!”. This robbery was accompanied by physical destruction and imprisonment by the representatives of these estates. This policy has resulted to destruction of private entrepreneurship, the disappearance of economic stimuluses to labour, to equality in poverty, economic ruin, because the organizers of a large production were destroyed or expelled from the country. The economic policy of military communism had replaced the market to direct distribution of products and clothing. But before it can distribute, first it need take away these products from peasants under threat of execution, but such an withdrawal has received a just resistance of peasants and it was one from causes of the civil war. This war continued until such time as Lenin replaced by food’s confiscation (“Prodrazvyorstka”) to food’s tax.
“Prodrazvyorstka” is state’s robbing of peasants without any norms and restrictions. Unlike “Prodrazvyorstka” , the size of the food’s tax was known in advance and was less than the size of “Prodrazvyorstka”. Lenin replaced the policy of military communism to policy NEP (New Economic Policy), that is he abolished the prohibition on petty trading, he entered the convertible currency – the Golden Russian chervonets, Lenin has allowed again that
enterprising man can become an employer (“nepman”). Stalin destroy HEP and repressed “nepmans”. As a result of all these cataclysms a new ruling layer (party “nomenclature”) appears.
Conclusion: As long there will be a division of public labour, such long society will be built at the social conflict and social control, until the classless society will remain a unrealizable utopia.
2.7.4.5. The conclusions from the Communist experiment:
Simplifying social structure is impossible. Religion, private property, market, state, laws, money, the separation of powers, democracy, a multi‐party system, the constitution, art competition, scientific discussion, the prison system, the army, law enforcement authorities, social control and social conflict are a great social inventions, which will die never and cannot be abolished without damage for society, and without just resistance of the population to this efforts of utopianists. Self‐ isolation of utopian State will leads to economic collapse inevitably.[/QUOTE]

All baseless declarative assumptions witout appreciating the vast complexity of this issue.

[QUOTE=Tim Cornelis;1061382352]False. This is a misrepresentation of Marx' views based on an anachronistic view. In Marx' time opium was a pain-killer, Marx meant that religion reliefs pain of the capitalist system, he was not anti-religious.

Incidentally, abortion was banned, and the rest of these social problems is just nonsense, you can not prove a causality.
[citation needed]
Marx was a utopian. And I consider all utopians as dangerous storytellers and partly mentally ill people. Therefore it is difficult to us to understand today, Marx meant what meaning of word "opium". It is difficult to us to understand logic of reasonings of storytellers and mentally ill people. It is impotent for us how Russian communists understood meaning of religion as opium. Russian communists understood religion as false outlook, as a harmful way to distort reality in the head at people by means of ideological drugs.
Alcoholism, decrease in birth rate because of divorces,depravity and family decomposition, executions of priests, robbery of church, growth of level of suicides and a crime rate in Russia is not nonsense, and the most important social problems of socialist Russia, consequences of which affect even today.

Originally Posted by Tim Cornelis

Dictatorship of the proletariat is not actually a dictatorship. Russia was only a DOTP in 1917, from then onwards this was abolished.
IF you look at Marx' description of the DOTP we see this was non-existent in the USSR.
Marx said that in a dictatorship of the proletariat, workers would have the right to recall and give mandates to public officials to guarantee a sort of grassroots democracy. Did was never implemented (only in 1917, but the Bolsheviks destroyed it in 191. He said public officials would receive an average wage, which was non-existent in the USSR.
He said money would be abolished, which was not introduced.
.

Dictatorship of the proletariat was in practice tyranny leadership of party of Bolsheviks. The top of Bolshevik party had the tyrannical power over own people. Stalin had the tyrannical power over all people. Such form of government as the tyranny existed at Stalin. Such form of government as the oligarchy existed at Lenin, Khrushchev and Brezhnev. The tyranny and oligarchy is ancient and primitive forms of government in comparison with representative democracy. Bolsheviks established system of the state terror against own people with 1917 on 1953. All this was made on the basis of utopian and fantastic descriptions of dictatorship of the proletariat, made Marx. I don't interest the description of dictatorship of the proletariat, made Marx as Andersen's fairy tales and Marx's theory is almost same. I don't interest fairy tales and utopias. Russian men starve to death nearly and were lost from the state terror nearly as a result of all these utopian experiments. Here it me interests.

Originally Posted by Tim Cornelis

All baseless declarative assumptions witout appreciating the vast complexity of this issue.

I made not assumptions, and I drew conclusions from communistic experiment in Russia. This experiment led to death of million Russian people. Results of this experiment buried Marxism as the scientific theory. And I, Valery Starikov, am the grave-digger of Marxism. I headed a crusade against Marxism.

I don't think it is fair to discredit communism/socialism because of the USSR. Trotsky had a name for it... "degenerated worker's state"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degener...rkers%27_state

Originally Posted by Valery Staricov

I made not assumptions, and I drew conclusions from communistic experiment in Russia. This experiment led to death of million Russian people. Results of this experiment buried Marxism as the scientific theory. And I, Valery Starikov, am the grave-digger of Marxism. I headed a crusade against Marxism.

I would suggest you not use a single model to draw your conclusion on in any subject. The Soviet model of communism =/= communism in its entirety.

The Soviets had a lot of communists criticizing them.

Trostky called the Soviet Union a degenerated workers' state. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degener...rkers%27_state

Karl Kautsky was critical.

George Orwell, who was a democratic socialist, saw the evils of tyranny in the USSR and wrote books about it.

And Marx himself would have been shocked as hell by the Soviet Union.

Originally Posted by PabloHoney

I don't think it is fair to discredit communism/socialism because of the USSR. Trotsky had a name for it... "degenerated worker's state"

Trotsky himself appled terror against Russian people during Civil war in Russia 1917-1921. Therefore Trotsky was the tyrant and the hangman. Simply hangman Trotsky lost to other hangman and tyrant Stalin in fight behind scenes. I hate Trotsky as well as Stalin. In my opinion, it is impossible to construct a socialism on other sample, except the Soviet sample constructed in the USSR.

Originally Posted by PabloHoney

I would suggest you not use a single model to draw your conclusion on in any subject. The Soviet model of communism =/= communism in its entirety.

The Soviets had a lot of communists criticizing them.

Trostky called the Soviet Union a degenerated workers' state. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degener...rkers%27_state

Karl Kautsky was critical.

George Orwell, who was a democratic socialist, saw the evils of tyranny in the USSR and wrote books about it.

And Marx himself would have been shocked as hell by the Soviet Union.

Marx, Kautsky and Oruel were utopians who couldn't construct own model of a socialism in reality. Lenin, Trotsky and Stalin weren't utopians, they managed to construct a socialism in reality, but this socialism appeared a hell, this socialism appeared tyranny with terror system against own people. Conclusion: it was impossible to construct anything, except a hell on the basis of a Marxist utopia.