Political Forum
     

Go Back   Political Forum > Other Political Discussion > Political Science


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-02-2008, 04:51 AM
Skeptikos Examiner's Avatar
Skeptikos Examiner Skeptikos Examiner is offline
Correspondent
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Absurdistan
Posts: 338
Skeptikos Examiner will become famous soon enough
Credits: 2,504
Default Proudhon - Necessity of competition (why commuism does not work)

Proudhon, who was born in 1809, was a French philosopher, metaphysician, anarchist, free thinker, economist, and the father of an alternative economic Weltanschaung which is neither based on socialistic nor capitalistic principles. Proudhon, who is highly underrated, is one of a few thinker who really influenced my Weltanschaung. Fallowing Proudhon, social and economical chaos is the only reason for the existence of government, in the dissolution of economical contradictions, the cause for the economical chaos and it’s social consequences, Proudhon saw the mean to arrive at social justice and in extension stability.

Proudhon believed in a direct relationship between reason; available intelligence in relation to the capacity to make use of it, and liberty, fallowing Proudhon, liberty may only be attained and increased in a sustainable way in harmony with reason, the amount of liberty attainable, in individual and social context, is determined by the absolute level of reason, an increase in reason connected with an increasing capacity for liberty; “summa lex summa libertas” (the fullness of liberty lies in the fullness of reason)

Proudhon was a very outspoken critic of communism, Marx wrote “The Misery of Philosophy” as answer to Proudhon’s “The Philosophy of Misery”.


-------------------------------------------------




Part from Proudhon’s “The Philosophy of Misery”.

Competition represents that philosophical era in which, a semi-understanding of the antinomies of reason having given birth to the art of sophistry, the characteristics of the false and the true were confounded, and in which, instead of doctrines, they had nothing but deceptive mental tilts. Thus the industrial movement faithfully reproduces the metaphysical movement; the history of social economy is to be found entire in the writings of the philosophers. Let us study this interesting phase, whose most striking characteristic is to take away the judgment of those who believe as well as those who protest.

1. — Necessity of competition.

Is it not immediately and intuitively evident that COMPETITION DESTROYS COMPETITION? Is there a theorem in geometry more certain, more peremptory, than that? How then, upon what conditions, in what sense, can a principle which is its own denial enter into science? How can it become an organic law of society? If competition is necessary; if, as the school says, it is a postulate of production, — how does it become so devastating in its effects? And if its most certain effect is to ruin those whom it incites, how does it become useful? For the inconveniences which follow in its train, like the good which it procures, are not accidents arising from the work of man: both follow logically from the principle, and subsist by the same title and face to face.

And, in the first place, competition is as essential to labor as division, since it is division itself returning in another form, or rather, raised to its second power; division, I say, no longer, as in the first period of economic evolution, adequate to collective force, and consequently absorbing the personality of the laborer in the workshop, but giving birth to liberty by making each subdivision of labor a sort of sovereignty in which man stands in all his power and independence. Competition, in a word, is liberty in division and in all the divided parts: beginning with the most comprehensive functions, it tends toward its realization even in the inferior operations of parcellaire labor.

Here the communists raise an objection. It is necessary, they say, in all things, to distinguish between use and abuse. There is a useful, praiseworthy, moral competition, a competition which enlarges the heart and the mind, a noble and generous competition, — it is emulation; and why should not this emulation have for its object the advantage of all? There is another competition, pernicious, immoral, unsocial, a jealous competition which hates and which kills, — it is egoism.

So says communism; so expressed itself, nearly a year ago, in its social profession of faith, the journal, “La Reforme.”

Whatever reluctance I may feel to oppose men whose ideas are at bottom my own, I cannot accept such dialectics. “La Reforme,” in believing that it could reconcile everything by a distinction more grammatical than real, has made use, without suspecting it, of the golden mean, — that is, of the worst sort of diplomacy. Its argument is exactly the same as that of M. Rossi in regard to the division of labor: it consists in setting competition and morality against each other, in order to limit them by each other, as M. Rossi pretended to arrest and restrict economic inductions by morality, cutting here, lopping there, to suit the need and the occasion. I have refuted M. Rossi by asking him this simple question: How can science be in disagreement with itself, the science of wealth with the science of duty? Likewise I ask the communists: How can a principle whose development is clearly useful be at the same time pernicious?

They say: emulation is not competition. I note, in the first place, that this pretended distinction bears only on the divergent effects of the principle, which leads one to suppose that there were two principles which had been confounded. Emulation is nothing but competition itself; and, since they have thrown themselves into abstractions, I willingly plunge in also. There is no emulation without an object, just as there is no passional initiative without an object; and as the object of every passion is necessarily analogous to the passion itself, — woman to the lover, power to the ambitious, gold to the miser, a crown to the poet, — so the object of industrial emulation is necessarily profit.

No, rejoins the communist, the laborer’s object of emulation should be general utility, fraternity, love.

But society itself, since, instead of stopping at the individual man, who is in question at this moment, they wish to attend only to the collective man, — society, I say, labors only with a view to wealth; comfort, happiness, is its only object. Why, then, should that which is true of society not be true of the individual also, since, after all, society is man and entire humanity lives in each man? Why substitute for the immediate object of emulation, which in industry is personal welfare, that far-away and almost metaphysical motive called general welfare, especially when the latter is nothing without the former and can result only from the former?

Communists, in general, build up a strange illusion: fanatics on the subject of power, they expect to secure through a central force, and in the special case in question, through collective wealth, by a sort of reversion, the welfare of the laborer who has created this wealth: as if the individual came into existence after society, instead of society after the individual. For that matter, this is not the only case in which we shall see the socialists unconsciously dominated by the traditions of the regime against which they protest.

But what need of insisting? From the moment that the communist changes the name of things, vera rerum vocabala, he tacitly admits his powerlessness, and puts himself out of the question. That is why my sole reply to him shall be: In denying competition, you abandon the thesis; henceforth you have no place in the discussion. .. spare us your moralities.

Competition is necessary to the constitution of value, — that is, to the very principle of distribution, and consequently to the advent of equality. As long as a product is supplied only by a single manufacturer, its real value remains a mystery, either through the producer’s misrepresentation or through his neglect or inability to reduce the cost of production to its extreme limit. Thus the privilege of production is a real loss to society, and publicity of industry, like competition between laborers, a necessity. All the utopias ever imagined or imaginable cannot escape this law.

Certainly I do not care to deny that labor and wages can and should be guaranteed; I even entertain the hope that the time of such guarantee is not far off: but I maintain that a guarantee of wages is impossible without an exact knowledge of value, and that this value can be discovered only by competition, not at all by communistic institutions or by popular decree. For in this there is something more powerful than the will of the legislator and of citizens, — namely, the absolute impossibility that man should do his duty after finding himself relieved of all responsibility to himself: now, responsibility to self, in the matter of labor, necessarily implies competition with others. Ordain that, beginning January 1, 1847, labor and wages are guaranteed to all: immediately an immense relaxation will succeed the extreme ten sion to which industry is now subjected; real value will fall rapidly below nominal value; metallic money, in spite of its effigy and stamp, will experience the fate of the assignats; the merchant will ask more and give less; and we shall find ourselves in a still lower circle in the hell of misery inwhich competition is only the third turn. ..

The theory of selfsacrifice, like that of rewards, is a theory of rogues, subversive of society and morality; and by the very fact that you look either to sacrifice or to privilege for the maintenance of order, you create a new antagonism in society. Instead of causing the birth of harmony from the free activity of persons, you render the individual and the State strangers to each other; in commanding union, you breathe discord.


.....


For the rest:
http://metadave.wordpress.com/2008/0...petition-1846/
__________________
In times of universal deceit the love of truth becomes the most radical of all ideologies.

Still a Caveman? - Your Mind is Controlled - The Brainwashing of the West - Your thoughts are not your own


Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Red Cross - Donate Today    Save the Rainforest
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2008, 05:10 PM
Herr Politik Herr Politik is offline
Observer
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 24
Herr Politik is on a distinguished road
Default I agree

I agree, communism is doomed because it doesnt reward work, like other systems, so no matter how hard you work, you dont make more money(unless in the government), so people dont have push to do better and thus the country stops progressing in all fields the government doesnt take speciall intrest in.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2008, 03:27 PM
Skeptikos Examiner's Avatar
Skeptikos Examiner Skeptikos Examiner is offline
Correspondent
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Absurdistan
Posts: 338
Skeptikos Examiner will become famous soon enough
Credits: 2,504
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herr Politik View Post
I agree, communism is doomed because it doesnt reward work, like other systems, so no matter how hard you work, you dont make more money(unless in the government), so people dont have push to do better and thus the country stops progressing in all fields the government doesnt take speciall intrest in.

Yep, we can see it today with all the welfare and stuff, many do no longer want to work anymore because they no longer have to! In the days of old people worked in order to survive, today people have no need to work anylonger and rather let others work for them,and that's why the deficits grow and grow!
__________________
In times of universal deceit the love of truth becomes the most radical of all ideologies.

Still a Caveman? - Your Mind is Controlled - The Brainwashing of the West - Your thoughts are not your own


Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2008, 12:46 PM
constitution101 constitution101 is offline
Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 166
constitution101 will become famous soon enoughconstitution101 will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeptikos Examiner View Post
Yep, we can see it today with all the welfare and stuff, many do no longer want to work anymore because they no longer have to! In the days of old people worked in order to survive, today people have no need to work anylonger and rather let others work for them,and that's why the deficits grow and grow!
yes, communism sounds good at first, but what a dull existance it leds to, unless you are blessed in becoming a leader of the government, were you can do nothing and get a lot more money for it (and a nice looking secratary too)! The only place communism works is in story books.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2008, 01:27 PM
nerv14 nerv14 is offline
Observer
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 66
usa us new jersey
nerv14 is on a distinguished road
Credits: 496
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeptikos Examiner View Post
Yep, we can see it today with all the welfare and stuff, many do no longer want to work anymore because they no longer have to! In the days of old people worked in order to survive, today people have no need to work anylonger and rather let others work for them,and that's why the deficits grow and grow!
There is a huge difference between meare welfare and communism.
Regardless of how welfare exists today the whole idea of it is to give money to people who have misfortunes untill they get on their feet again. People still have to work if they want to increase their standard of living above a horrible level. The incentive isn't to allowed the right to survive but just the ability to live a good life, which is a strong incentive. If people don't have a reason to work because of welfare than the welfare is too potent.

Communism on the otherhand is exactly what you said in that if people don't work they will get the same treatment as everyone who works, and there is no incentive to work.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
economics, french, proudhon

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
An Economic and Political Philosophy: Artificial Competition Raharu Haruha Political Opinions & Beliefs 11 02-08-2008 11:53 AM
ethnio-sectarian competition for power and resources. f100supersabr Current Events 8 09-14-2007 03:36 PM
IT MAY WORK!!! MUNKO1970 Political Opinions & Beliefs 14 01-16-2007 05:03 AM
Furries have some competition this year Sadistic-Savior Off-Topic Chat 35 09-20-2006 01:52 PM
Yay for competition! Sadistic-Savior Current Events 13 05-04-2005 11:15 AM

Sponsored Links

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0
Template-Modifikationen durch TMS
vBCredits v1.3 ©2007 by Darkwaltz4
Advertisement System V2.1 By   Branden