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Old 08-24-2004, 04:22 PM
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Default It gives Libs that "warm fuzzy" feeling
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Originally Posted by lyghtningrod";p=&quot View Post
I want to know why we should be working for the greater good of society. That is a nebulous goal that means something different to everybody.
It sounds so noble. It's got this romantic quality to it. Like when someone stands up in the middle of an argument and yells, "Why can't we all just get along?" :::: gag ::::
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 08-24-2004, 04:41 PM
lyghtningrod lyghtningrod is offline
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Default romantics
Senax
It brings to mind the expression "full of sound and fury signifying nothing."
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Old 08-24-2004, 06:41 PM
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Default Ding dinggggggggg "WE HAVE A WINNAHHH!"
Perfect quote to use!

You are so eloquent.
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Old 08-24-2004, 09:46 PM
lyghtningrod lyghtningrod is offline
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Default wow
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Originally Posted by SenaxFlatulus";p=&quot View Post
Perfect quote to use!

You are so eloquent.
Hey, I like you!!!
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Old 08-25-2004, 02:22 AM
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Default Political "chemistry"
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lordnurgle- i would have to disagree with you on that one. national does not mean right wing. the main difference i have seen between left and right is that the left wants more centralized government control while the right wants less of it. we could call it either national and international socialism, or we could call it micro and macro socialism. both are socialism, only on different levels. just because the nazis may have been more to the right than the communists doesn't mean that they were right wing. they were 99% lefties while the communists were 100%. still sounds left to me.

has anyone read those speeches i posted? they opened my eyes to how the national socialists really felt about things. and here for all these years i was taught that nazis were capitalists!
-j
It is a tricky matter, probably we are saying the same thing with different words.

THe triky part is that "right wing" has been used to define HItler, Pinochet and Reagan, while "left wing" can describe Stalin, Kennedy and Zapatero. Just to make some examples.

THe real point is that the Right-Left definition is "FUBAR" if you let me use this expression. People usually decide one side is "good" and then they put in that side what they believe is good.

Probably it would be best to choose an analytical approach, and try to decompose political doctrines in their components.
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Old 08-25-2004, 09:17 AM
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Default free vs state owned
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THe real point is that the Right-Left definition is "FUBAR" if you let me use this expression. People usually decide one side is "good" and then they put in that side what they believe is good.
Again, the true distinction is between freedom and statism. Either the govt lets you be, or it says you belong to the state.
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Old 08-25-2004, 02:39 PM
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Default d
exactly lyghtningrod. the right vs. left debate regards governmental control. socialism, a leftist doctrine, pushes for more government intervention. anarchism, a rightist doctrine, wants no government intervention at all. the debate between what is right and what is left has nothing to do with what people call "good." and back to the topic, to call hitler right-wing would be to completely ignore the facts. he hated capitalism. he wanted control of welfare, education, healthcare, etc. the state had to have a hand in all business. is that closer to an anarchist government or a communist government?
-j
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Old 08-25-2004, 02:54 PM
lyghtningrod lyghtningrod is offline
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Default definitions
An old definition of communism and Fascism

Communism wanted to own the means of production entirely
Fascism wanted to control the means of production.

I do not see a lot of difference between the two.
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Old 08-25-2004, 05:15 PM
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Default I read this one once...
Communism is Socialism in a hurry.
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Old 08-26-2004, 01:36 AM
LordNurgle LordNurgle is offline
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Default ..
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Originally Posted by lyghtningrod";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
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THe real point is that the Right-Left definition is "FUBAR" if you let me use this expression. People usually decide one side is "good" and then they put in that side what they believe is good.
Again, the true distinction is between freedom and statism. Either the govt lets you be, or it says you belong to the state.
And this in turn can be split in the personal freedoms and economic freedoms...

Sweden controls most of its own economy, with tax rates up to 60% and lots of welfare, while leaving much freedom to the people. THe french government owns most of French economy, from energy generation to other strategic sectors, while the French are basically free to do as they prefer. Even gay marriage is practically allowed.
Pinochet (and now, more and more, China) leave great freedom of enterprise, while suppressing every other right.
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