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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 06-24-2008, 09:20 AM
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As I understand it, "objectivists" are a particular school of libertarianism.
Considering that libertarianism is a very broad category, it's no shock that they have their differences with other libertarians.

I've always found objectivists ridiculous, even somewhat hypocritical. Their philosophy is based in elitism and requires the existence of an ultra-powerful and unaccountable state (who else is supposed to safeguard the "objective" principles and put down any populist or socialist sensibilities that may arise).
I also tend to dislike the way that they frown on altruism. Personally I think altruism is necessary for libertarianism to make any sense.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 06-24-2008, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by JavaBlack View Post
As I understand it, "objectivists" are a particular school of libertarianism.
Considering that libertarianism is a very broad category, it's no shock that they have their differences with other libertarians.

I've always found objectivists ridiculous, even somewhat hypocritical. Their philosophy is based in elitism and requires the existence of an ultra-powerful and unaccountable state (who else is supposed to safeguard the "objective" principles and put down any populist or socialist sensibilities that may arise).
I also tend to dislike the way that they frown on altruism. Personally I think altruism is necessary for libertarianism to make any sense.
I take note of the last part of your last sentence. Do you feel that Libertarianism makes sense? Are you a Libertarian or perhaps even just a libertarian?
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Old 06-24-2008, 07:43 PM
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When did this become a "Bash Libertarianism Thread"?

Personally, I'm a Libertarian today because government has become monsterous. Neither Republicans nor Democrats seem to be interested in solving this problem. That doesn't mean say a few Libertarian Leaders would mean that the government would spontaneously shrink into nothingness... Sheesh
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Old 06-24-2008, 08:28 PM
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I'd rather it became a 'bash objectivism' thread. I can see a lot of attractive notions in libertarianism. Objectivism only seems to lead to a eugenic Darwinian hell.
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Old 06-25-2008, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by DanishDynamite View Post
I take note of the last part of your last sentence. Do you feel that Libertarianism makes sense? Are you a Libertarian or perhaps even just a libertarian?
I could describe myself as a "left-wing libertarian" or even a "moderate libertarian"... but a lot of people don't believe such things can exist. Recently I've discovered the term "libertarian paternalism" which I think fits a lot of my views... but some would argue it's not really libertarian (I'd prefer to call it "defaultism" or "rational choice policy" or something like that, but I didn't get to name it).
But I think I'm better described as liberal than libertarian.

But, that said, I have libertarian sympathies. I believe in minimal government... Where I differ with most libertarians is just how much and how complex a government we need with a population our size. I think most libertarians underestimate.
I also tend to believe ideally people should do good voluntarily and whenever possible needs should be met by private agents. Government programs should be used only for societal needs that the private sector cannot or will not take care of.
My favorite caucus of the Democratic Party is the Democratic Freedom Caucus, viewed as the libertarian wing. And I also have some interest in the ideals of geo-libertarianism (Georgism) and mutualism... both libertarian (or even anarchistic) philosophies, albeit not supported by the more right-wing group most American Libertarians belong to.
But even then I'm a bit too pragmatic to suggest setting up such systems without a slow transgression and lots of experimentation.

I don't know if all that makes me libertarian or not... and I don't worry about it.
But either way, I hate "objectivism".
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2008, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by SuperDinoYoshi View Post
When did this become a "Bash Libertarianism Thread"?
Since it contained the word "Libertarian" in its title.
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Personally, I'm a Libertarian today because government has become monsterous. Neither Republicans nor Democrats seem to be interested in solving this problem. That doesn't mean say a few Libertarian Leaders would mean that the government would spontaneously shrink into nothingness... Sheesh
Excellent! Being a Libertarian, perhaps you would have a stab at adressing the two questions I posed?
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Old 06-25-2008, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by JavaBlack View Post
I could describe myself as a "left-wing libertarian" or even a "moderate libertarian"... but a lot of people don't believe such things can exist. Recently I've discovered the term "libertarian paternalism" which I think fits a lot of my views... but some would argue it's not really libertarian (I'd prefer to call it "defaultism" or "rational choice policy" or something like that, but I didn't get to name it).
But I think I'm better described as liberal than libertarian.

But, that said, I have libertarian sympathies. I believe in minimal government... Where I differ with most libertarians is just how much and how complex a government we need with a population our size. I think most libertarians underestimate.
I also tend to believe ideally people should do good voluntarily and whenever possible needs should be met by private agents. Government programs should be used only for societal needs that the private sector cannot or will not take care of.
My favorite caucus of the Democratic Party is the Democratic Freedom Caucus, viewed as the libertarian wing. And I also have some interest in the ideals of geo-libertarianism (Georgism) and mutualism... both libertarian (or even anarchistic) philosophies, albeit not supported by the more right-wing group most American Libertarians belong to.
But even then I'm a bit too pragmatic to suggest setting up such systems without a slow transgression and lots of experimentation.

I don't know if all that makes me libertarian or not... and I don't worry about it.
But either way, I hate "objectivism".
It makes a lot of sense. And it speaks in credit to your mental health. Thanks for explaining your position.
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Old 06-26-2008, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by DanishDynamite View Post
Libertarianism is like Marxism. It sounds good on paper.

Both are of course equally deluded.

Tell me, Libertarians, how is original ownership of land established? And do you really feel, like your previous "presidential candidate" that anyone should have the right to have nuclear arms?
why are you stealing my arguments? are you my 'secret sharer'?
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Old 06-26-2008, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Koga View Post
The truth is both are such pompus (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)s that they need to pretend they're different to increase the size of their E-penis.

Objectivism sucks, libertarinism sucks, and this is coming from someone who would generally be considerd libertarian.


They're cults is what they are. Haphazard, idiot, cults. Who don't even know what the hell they believe in. They spout incoherent nonsense such as the rejection of force. Define force.
jesus, where have all you people been?

I thought I was alone.

home, at last!

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Old 06-26-2008, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by BigRed View Post
I stopped reading after that. Too much nonsense for me.

Libertarianism/Objectivism/Constitutionalism are the three best philosophies out there.

http://www.atlassociety.org/cth-32-4...jectivism.aspx
a mind like a trap door...welded shut.
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