This is a redirect of conversations made in the "New Mods" thread, from the PF Help Section, started on June 30th.


On domestic issues, I'm extremely libertarian.

• Pro Personal Responsibility
• Pro Choice
• Pro Guns
• Pro Drugs
• Extremely Limited Government

Basically, people should be free to do whatever they want, whenever they want...just as long as their actions do not impede or restrict the freedoms of anyone else.

Where I stray from libertarianism is in foreign policy. Regardless of whether or not it was justified, I fully support the war, because I understand the consequences of not doing so. This is why I "lean a little to the right."

You probably think I'm republican because of my opinions on democrats. My answer would be that while I'm not especially keen on republicans, I'm flat-out against most of what democrats are for.

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"It's the rich people's fault they earn more." - Makedde

Wow, I didn't realize that!! I agree with you on almost all of that!! I even think we need to stay in iraq, but I just don't think we are succeeding now!! That is why I don't particularly support Obama or McCain, because one says stay the course, the other says leave. Neither says stay, but change tactics, which is what I think we need to do!

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R.I.P. Molly, I miss you every day!!

Im a Tarte, what! you want some of this?


To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine

No offense, but I've always thought libertarianism is to conservatism what skinheads are to nazis.

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Obama/Biden 2008

We agree on most of that as well. Including Foreign Policy.

My Politics posted here.. just a few inches down at the end of another string:
New idea for the Forum

Save I am an Green (or liberal/Schwartzenager/Giuliani/Northeast) 'Republican', realizing that left to their/it's own devices, the world can indeed destroy itself through just regular activity of enough people.

If half the planet used as much of the world's resources and emitted as much as we do, the environment will suffer and eventually collapse. And this Alas coming to pass as the world Catches up.

Oceans CAN be Overfished and Overpolluted (many 'lakes are already 'dead'). Most fisheries are now regulated by consent and realization.

We can't have Libertarians making/letting the planet become smokey 1940 Pittsburgh, Or 2008 Beijing for that matter. (25% and growing of LA's Air pollution is now from China).
Or.... letting a New Drug company sell some/any formulation.

There does need to be Federal and even Intl regulations of many things.

Of course none of this changes my objections to you as Mod on the quality of your posts vs Politcial opinion.
In Fact, our general agreement only makes my other Objections more poignant and less partisan.
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Libertarians know about market failure. The federal government can step in when it occurs. Preventing the overuse of natural resources is one thing that the government can do when market failure occurs. It is to the best interest of society to ensure that the oceans are not over-fished or over polluted, so the government can come in and put restrictions on those activities.

Of course, there are always some crazy libertarians who don't believe in market failure. But they're the crazy ones.

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"It is extremely difficult for our contemporaries to conceive of the conditions of free banking because they take government interference with banking for granted and as necessary"

-- Ludwig von Mises

How so?

We live in the "land of the free." Why can't we be free to do whatever we want? If I want to smoke a fat bag of hippie lettuce, why shouldn't I? If some woman wants to have an abortion, who am I to tell her not to?

But by the same token, I expect the government not to impede on my freedoms either. They should stay out of my pocket. They should stay out of my house. They should stay out of my car.

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"It's the rich people's fault they earn more." - Makedde

But you're not truly understanding the libertarian viewpoint.

By letting the planet become smoky or polluted, you ARE impeding on the freedoms of others. Something libertarians don't believe in. Impeding on freedoms doesn't necessarily mean direct one-on-one actions.

However, if you're going to suggest government action on stuff like this, then there needs to be 100% airtight PROOF that it's happening, including the cause and effect. Unfortunately, in the subjects like global warming, it's not air-tight. As long as one scientist creates viable rebuttal, then it's not 100%.

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"It's the rich people's fault they earn more." - Makedde

Libertarians would get rid of just about ever govt Function except defense.
That's the basic rap.

Why can't I just build a stinking coal Plant .. or 30, in my home state ...say self-interested WV?

EPA (FDA) would be among the first of many to go (not that Bush hasn't killed it anyway). And many do indeed need to go.


And how many Libertarians would agree to a world (or even domestic cap) Treaty on Emissions (CO2 and other)?
My guess single digit percentage.

I mean a Treaty LIKE Kyoto (which every single Libertarian hates) BUT a Fair one that Caps Filthy Chindia and the developing world as well?

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Not if they still consider themselves supportive of pure capitalism. Government regulation on monopolies and the use natural resources are essential to capitalism. You are also forgetting that the primary libertarian belief is in the government's function of preserving natural rights. Defense is only one component of that, law is the other.

All the libertarians that believe in global warming that I know support cap and trade. However, most of the non-extremist libertarians that I know (myself included) support conservationism and environmentalism. But global warming comes down to a faith question. You can't look at the dumping of toxic waste into the environment and say "oh, it's not really happening"

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"It is extremely difficult for our contemporaries to conceive of the conditions of free banking because they take government interference with banking for granted and as necessary"

-- Ludwig von Mises

Your bolded portion:

The Libertarian platform on the topic:
The Platform seems to disagree with you a bit,
They really see No Place for the govt in Environmental matters, rather free market and 'pressure' from environmental groups.

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