America Has worse internet speeds than Bulgaria

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Trumanp, Sep 25, 2012.

  1. Trumanp

    Trumanp Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2007
    Messages:
    2,011
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    48
    http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/dail...BzdGNhdANibG9nBHB0A3NlY3Rpb25z;_ylv=3#more-id

    Yes, it's true.

    Good article that points out how poorly the so called competition between data providers is working out for America. Socialist countries have better speeds, and far lower prices than our super powers capitalistic infrastructure.

    They point out how phone bills have been sky rocketing. I know just how badly America is getting ripped off. My employer could have taken a slightly cheaper route and went with Time Warner's VOIP cable phone service, but I had a better option.

    I built our own VOIP PBX using linux and an opensource PBX software known as Asterisk. I then researched which VOIP provider would give us the best deal on a per minute rate, it's about 1 cent a minute anywhere in the US/Canada and most of Mexico, with international rates at about 10-50% of what we used to pay our old long distance carrier. We didn't opt for any kind of unlimited minute package.

    We also started getting our internet service from a local tower based WIFI internet provider that was about half of what Time Warner Business services wanted, forget what ever AT&T wanted to charge for data services, and it's about twice as fast too boot.

    All in all, it took a 3000.00 per month phone bill, down to about 400.00 a month average, for a company that consists of 5 different divisions, and used to have 20+ total phone lines.

    The reason I posted all this, is because we are in essence close to the same operating level as a regular phone company, our minutes are purchased from an exchange through our end point provider. If we had the volume and it was worth my trouble I would cut them out too, but it's not worth the effort for the minimal savings I could see.

    America is getting screwed on the big business, lobbying model that exists today, and certain politicians are doing everything they can to keep it up and make sure we look down on the rest of the world, because hey, we're Americans, there's no way the French or even Bulgarians could ever do something better than us.
     
  2. Leffe

    Leffe New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2009
    Messages:
    11,726
    Likes Received:
    139
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Not surprising, your roads are (*)(*)(*)(*)e, bridges not maintained, neither levies, electricity cables hung, not burried in areas of annual snow fall. Schools under funded etc...

    BUT! Your rich are the richest and they are more of them, which is the measure approximately 50% of you use to measure your country. Oddly, of that 50%, only approx. 0.1% don't need these services.

    Suckas!
     
  3. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    107,541
    Likes Received:
    34,488
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It probably hurts us that we have more than 5 internet users.
     
  4. Taxcutter

    Taxcutter New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2011
    Messages:
    20,847
    Likes Received:
    188
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Such are the fruits of government regulation.
     
  5. mikezila

    mikezila New Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    23,299
    Likes Received:
    250
    Trophy Points:
    0
    and a system that has grown thru several major tech upgrades as opposed to one that just popped into being with a common state of the art network.

    we have places that still can only get dial-up. in Bulgaria, if you have internet, you have broadband.
     
  6. Trumanp

    Trumanp Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2007
    Messages:
    2,011
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Actually, think again. The countries with the strictest regulations, and government run infrastructure are kicking our collective rears.

    Think about the stupidity of the American model, we have competing data carriers each building out their own networks, more so in the cellular field, while the countries we compete against have a single network that the service providers rent time from the government to use.

    Multiple investments, or single unified system that everyone uses. Which one sounds more efficient to manage and upgrade?

    American telecommunications are dying due to deregulation and the free market emphasis.
     
  7. Daybreaker

    Daybreaker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2007
    Messages:
    17,158
    Likes Received:
    140
    Trophy Points:
    63
  8. Serfin' USA

    Serfin' USA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2011
    Messages:
    24,183
    Likes Received:
    551
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We actually have one of the least regulated telecom structures.
     
  9. votesmart

    votesmart Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2012
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Having returned recently from a business trip to South Korea, I can say without a doubt that So. Korea has the fastest speeds, most secure networks and by far leads the world with the number of connected citizens per capita.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_South_Korea
     
  10. Serfin' USA

    Serfin' USA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2011
    Messages:
    24,183
    Likes Received:
    551
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well, to be fair, when it comes to roads and bridges, that's highly dependent on the state.

    Our interstate highway system is mostly well run and maintained. Beyond that, state governments handle roads and bridges.

    My state's roads and bridges are among the U.S.'s best, because we spend a lot on them.

    South Carolina, on the other hand, is very lacking in their maintenance. So, it really depends on the state.
     
  11. Serfin' USA

    Serfin' USA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2011
    Messages:
    24,183
    Likes Received:
    551
    Trophy Points:
    113
    While I generally agree with your post, it is worth noting that Bulgaria is a much smaller country than ours. Their population is more concentrated than ours as well, which makes the cost of providing better internet infrastructure to most of the population cheaper than it is for our very spread out population.
     
  12. custer

    custer New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,927
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    0
    But you see, the Koreans must be able to play Starcraft at top notch at all hours of the day. It's their national sport. Thus, they need the best internet ever.
     
  13. votesmart

    votesmart Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2012
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Well, they have it.
     
  14. RedCyprus

    RedCyprus New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2012
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    This is my industry, so I will chime in. There are many factors at play. First, Americans wireless infrastructure is old. It costs billions of dollars to build a nationwide network, and companies often want to be in the black before they upgrade. Many foreign countries have the benefit of recently installing their first or second generation networks. Also, most of these countries have smaller network penetration. USA has 4 large carriers who have the burden of carrying most of the population on its networks. It is hard to compare the USA which is a massive nation with varying terrains and 300 million people to most small socialist nations that have 8 to 60 million people with a small coverage area in comparison. In 2007, the iPhone brought along the smartphone and data explosion. This has put much strain on carrier networks and slowed speeds. As a result, carrriers have scrambled, spending tens of billions in spectrum auctions, building new towers, and upgrading to LTE technology.

    Furthermore, Telecom is one of the most heavily regulated industries in the USA. The FCC has unbelievable authority, controls electromagnetic frequency licensing, and its regulations are a huge burden on businesses. The FCC also loves to create rules that are extremely anticompetitive and approve anticompetitive mergers like NBC/Comcast. If you would like me to go into finer details, I have many stories. Associating capitalism with Telecom is a fail, because you cannot do business without a team of FCC attorneys, huge disclosures, complying with hundreds of rules, paying many fees, etc.
     
  15. Taxcutter

    Taxcutter New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2011
    Messages:
    20,847
    Likes Received:
    188
    Trophy Points:
    0
    "The FCC also loves to create rules that are extremely anticompetitive and approve anticompetitive mergers like NBC/Comcast."

    Taxcutter says:
    Hundreds of agencies regulating scores of industry but in almost all cases, regulations discourage competition. This is just one more example why regulation must be attenuated.
     
  16. Trumanp

    Trumanp Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2007
    Messages:
    2,011
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I don't argue that point. Geography is extremely relevant, and actually one of the bigger reasons America desperately needs a national communications infrastructure plan for the whole nation rather than the slip shod mish mash of crap we have now.

    Deregulation and the free market will doom our national communications infrastructure.
     
  17. PropagandaMachine

    PropagandaMachine New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2012
    Messages:
    1,574
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Wow. "Ignorance is strength."
     
  18. BleedingHeadKen

    BleedingHeadKen Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2008
    Messages:
    16,551
    Likes Received:
    1,270
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Been to Bulgaria lately? I have. The EU is building lots of fancy things there. New roads so that the old babuskas can carry their hayloads to market in their carts. Faster internet so the kids, most of whom don't have work unless it's a few hours a week or making porn or running jobs for the mafia can play WOW to farm gold for American buyers. In Rousse, we had kids begging for food from us in the streets. Koprivshtitsa, a World Heritage site still has very few cars. Most people still live in homes built in the 19th century and are fortunate to have running water. I'm sure that they love the fine broadband brought to their homes by the beneficent rulers of the European Union who will modernize them just like Moscow did That way their kids can get on Facebook and put up pictures of the occasional shower they can take at a "rich" friend's house. That's what my friends in Romania do.

    Things have improved since 2001 when I first visited, but not so greatly. I'm glad for them that they have such great broadband. As a tourist, it's very helpful to upload my pictures. Were I a citizen, I'd probably be more concerned about employment.

    I'll take the state capitalism that the US has over the command economy which Bulgaria suffered for decades and which you would probably laud if it were to come back again. These days, though, it's not much better and soon they'll be about the same. It's not really capitalism, except for the rich. In both cases, the poor are screwed.
     
  19. Leffe

    Leffe New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2009
    Messages:
    11,726
    Likes Received:
    139
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Serfin, it was just one of those throw away rhetoric BS things these people say. He clearly hadn't thought at all about the subject matter or his response in any way at all!
     
  20. Leffe

    Leffe New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2009
    Messages:
    11,726
    Likes Received:
    139
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Which is fair enough, but the problem is that the rhetoric of low taxation means low government investment. Everyone I know who's been to the US has commented on the generally poor state of infrastructure. It's incredibly short sighted not to bury power lines in areas which have high snow fall each year for instance.

    In the NL, I've friends who've fibre internet coming directly into their house. Over the last few years the amount of investment into roads, tunnels, industrial canals etc.. is incredible. Cities are preparing themselves for expansion by removing the over ground ring roads and putting them underground, increasing the potential for traffic flow and reducing it's urban impact.

    I understand that the US is different in that it's population is not so dense, but the US seems stuck in a gear which its competitors left years ago. I can only assume that special interest groups and their lobbyists like the status quo, as it's more profitable this way. Which highlights not a proplem with capitalism, but with the particular brand of capitalism and abuse of government and democratic processes.
     
  21. Stagnant

    Stagnant Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages:
    5,214
    Likes Received:
    45
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I blame Obama.

    Why?

    I dunno, apparently it's the trendy thing to do.
     
  22. Leffe

    Leffe New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2009
    Messages:
    11,726
    Likes Received:
    139
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The "burden"? And what a burden having all those customers is! They must hate it! All those people paying them their monthly bills!

    Small socialist countries? Oh come on! There are no socialist countries in Europe. There are small countries however, who can manage their affairs better than large countries, where the large corporations have created near monompolies, which can prioritise profit before quality of service. The Population of the EU is approx. 450-480 million, compared 350-380 in the USA, we just don't have the monopolies. We do have huge carriers such as Vodafone for mobile networks, but Vodafone (as ugly a company as it is regarding paying its tax) invest heavily into it's infrastructure, because of the competition from the multitude of smaller carriers.

    I don't even want to get into regulations, lets just say we have regulations here also - eg Roaming charges for calls, texts and mobile internet are heavily capped by the EU, as the carriers have been taking the (*)(*)(*)(*) for so long. The EU has twice now lowered the max charges for roaming and we expect them to go further in the future.

    The USA's problems are mainly driven by a complete lack of competition and the size of the country.
     
  23. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    107,541
    Likes Received:
    34,488
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So it is just fine to have a corporation invest in something in your country but not in ours? LOL Believe me, when you cap prices somewhere through government fiat then you are silly to think that a company will not make that up somewhere else either in other charges or lower service. Sounds to me like you have a lack of competition.
     
  24. Trumanp

    Trumanp Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2007
    Messages:
    2,011
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    48
    True to a degree, however some of the nations that are far ahead of us have had networks at least as old as ours and still have found ways to exceed us.

    This is all the more reason it's completely insane to build out multiple data networks, and why it's adding to the cost of data communications in America. What's worse is often these different networks aren't compatible with one another. LTE is a good step in the right direction, but look at the idiocy of CDMA and GSM both running in the US as a primary reason that allowing multiple networks to be built out as inefficient at best.

    One more thing to consider, wireless spectrum consumption. By having multiple wireless networks, and network owners we are wasting a significant amount of wireless spectrum by not having a common national network all on a common frequency band.

    All in all, the way America is allowing wireless networks to be built is inefficient at best, completely wasteful and hurting the consumer multiple times even worse.

    I won't completely disagree with this, assessment. I think a good portion of the anticompetitivness comes from lobbying groups who have their own agendas, among other things. Like the whole Verizon and Alltel merger was hardly good for the consumer, but they all of a sudden realized when AT&T wanted to buy out T-Mobile that fewer competitors was a bad thing?

    It's a mish mash of poor regulation, deregulation, overly management and insufficient oversight of the FCC in general that is at fault.

    It comes down to so many Americans are disdaining anything related to other countries and that no one does it better than us.

    This is why America is failing in Communications, Health Care standards, infrastructure capacity and so many other areas when compared to other nations in the world.

    It's time we stopped making excuses for why we are allowing our country to fall behind the competition, and start taking bold action to correct what's wrong. If that means some "socialized" methods need to come to pass for efficiency's sake then so be it.
     
  25. webrockk

    webrockk Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2010
    Messages:
    25,361
    Likes Received:
    9,081
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Move.........
     

Share This Page